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EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

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841–850 of 1001 posts

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#841
What a catastrophe. Can't wait until the EU is disbanded and that dysfunctional union is laid to rest in the history books for good.

All I can say is I hope Europeans enjoy their new walled garden, because I sure as hell won't be complying with these rules.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#842
post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simple, the EU wants it's own internet like China. No more filthy US internet with talk about free speech and fair use.

I see part of your argument, but the internet in the US is by no means full of free speech and fair use. The government has their hands on every major service provider and ISP and has used their power to compel companies to give information or censor data. What's happening here is the EU is seeing every other major power lock down their internet, so why would they leave theirs open which would also allow foreign medd…

Ah yes, the ol "but China is building a digital dystopia so we should too" argument. A classic.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#843
post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the same way as in the US, and I don't think campaign contributions are a thing, at least not at the same level as in the US. But there are many, many lobbyists active in the EU, and some of them have a surprising amount of influence over politicians. There has even been a case where two different parties, independently from each other, introduced the exact same bill, which had been written by a lobbyist.

What leverage do they use for lobbying, if campaign contributions are off the tables?

Bribery. I'm only half joking.

There's lots of dark international money slushing around out there that happens to make it into someone's wife's friend's company.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They do, and free speech and fair use are important issues to them. The German law that is related to what US citizens call "copyright law" (Urheberrechtsgesetz) (note that I use this careful formulation, since Urheberrecht and copyright are based on different ideas) has no concept of "fair use". Also, traditionally, in Germany, there is culturally a different understanding of what US citizens call "free speech" (f…

IANAL, but the legal answer for why free speech and copyright aren't mutually exclusive is that copyright is an explicitly listed power of congress in the constitution: The Congress shall have Power To... ...To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; and Congress shall make no law... ...ab…

Note that the power grant to Congress to establish copyright was in the original Constitution, while freedom of speech is protected by the First Amendment, which - as the name says - is an amendment, which, by definition, changes the existing powers.

The legal argument for that, rather, is that all rights are implicitly limited, and that, depending on how important the right in question is, how small the limitation is in scope, and how important the social objective that the limitation is intended to enable, it can be constitutional - with courts being the arbiters of what's important and what's small. The fact that the colonies had slander and libel laws on the book even as they passed the Constitution is often cited as a justification for this point of view.

I think it's a case of parallel construction. The original First Amendment was not a problem to libel and slander because it simply didn't apply to the states at all, only the federal government, same as all others until they were incorporated via 14A. It does, however, clearly conflict with copyright, and there's nothing in the text of the Constitution that resolves that conflict one way or the other, or even sets clear guidelines on how you'd do so. So what we have in practice is mostly judicial precedent - and most of it is constructed out of necessity to make things work (i.e. "we've always done it this way", or "bad things happen if we don't do it this way"). So you have a patchwork of concepts like fair use, creative expression etc.

The most convincing argument that I have heard is that freedom of speech is about freedom to express ideas, not freedom to use specific words to express those ideas. Since copyright only applies to the latter, it's not an infringement. I'm not sure I fully buy it, but it does highlight an important distinction. Stuff like fair use stems from that, to enable you to express an idea that's criticism of someone else's words.

Here's an interesting read on the subject:

https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl...

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#845
post #82

UKIP and the Green Party joined forces to prevent Article 13 from getting rammed through without a public discussion. It was a good first step, but here we are, 2 months hence, and it was passed with virtually no amendments to the original text. This is an abhorrent decision by people who have no idea how the internet works. Markus Meechum (aka Count Dankula) was at the hearings, and reported that MEPs voting on the…

I may be naive in saying this, but I believe the law is made with good intentions in mind. The real problem lies in the laws it relies on, namely the extremely stringent copyright laws and the weird fair use. > Much of YouTube content is (perfectly legal) remixes, responses, or criticisms of other YouTube content that embeds part of the referenced video in their own video. As weird as it sounds, you are wrong. In a s…

> I believe the law is made with good intentions in mind.

"He looked down at the broad steps they were climbing. They were something of a novelty; each one was built out of large stone letters. The one he was just stepping on to, for example, read: I Meant It For The Best. The next one was: I Thought You’d Like It. Eric was standing on: For the Sake of the Children. “Weird, isn’t it?” he said. “Why do it like this?” “I think they’re meant to be good intentions,” said Rincewind. This was a road to Hell, and demons were, after all, traditionalists. And, while they are of course irredeemably evil, they are not always bad. And so Rincewind stepped off We Are Equal Opportunity Employers and through a wall, which healed up behind him, and into the world."

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#846
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No individuals or companies can gain money from suing you for jaywalking. This is different.

Yes, the OP did also state that point as well. The comparison was just to illustrate that this law is unenforceable at large scale so people might just disregard it. The danger is, as he and yourself have both stated, you then have a situation where the law becomes a weapon to be abused rather than legislation to safeguard businesses or consumer interest.

Unfortunately, it's quite enforceable. That's the whole point of this legislation - it goes after those entities that it can be enforced against (businesses), forcing them to turn around and enforce it against the smaller fish in their domain.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#847
post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the other party will be found guilty of disrupting your business by having you get into court for complaints without legal grounds.

If there is only one possible outcome, then that outcome should be clearly encoded in the law. The whole purpose of the court system is to provide interpretation when a law is vague - intentionally or not.

Remember that the law in europe tends to not function like the american law, including how courts work. The law is almost always vague and courts will have to interpret it.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#848
post #700

As terrible as this is, I am actually even more shocked by this proposal: https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/12/europe-to-push-for-one-hou... Having one hour to remove offending content, draconian fines and no, absolutely no exceptions for small content providers would, I think, end the internet as we know it in Europe. I see no way to host any kind of content under such jurisdiction and surely all non European content p…

Wow, this gets crazier and crazier. So either any content provider should be able to determine within one hour whether every comment is "terrorist" or not (with guidelines as clear as "information which is used to incite and glorify the commission of terrorist offences") and remove it, or, more likely, they'd auto-remove every comment that anybody marked as "terrorist" and let people complain about it later. Coupled…

Obviously that's impossible and it'll be easier to just not have comments, which is exactly what websites will do, and exactly what the EU wants. The EU is sick and tired of people sharing their opinions and pointing out how stupid and draconian and bereaucratic the EU can be, so they did this to shut it all down under the guise of protecting copyright or somesuch.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclosure -- I work on this for EFF) You can read the recitals this commenter is describing here, including the latest amendments that were voted in the Parliamentary plenary. As you'd imagine, I disagree with his interpretation. https://juliareda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Copyright_Se... Firstly, these are just recitals. They're not a binding part of the Directive, they just lay out the justifications for the…

> it's that if you use any text of an article, including its title, you can be sued or made to sign a license. This seems a great place to use automated translation technology, but into the same language. Link to the news article, but rewrite it using a similar meaning, with different words. (I am an EU citizen and I think this is major overreach by the legislator who thinks they are saving the newspapers, but have n…

That is like claiming you can re-publish someone else's book if you translate it to Spanish or just replace all of the words with synonyms: you are creating a derivative work and are still using the original.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but the legal answer for why free speech and copyright aren't mutually exclusive is that copyright is an explicitly listed power of congress in the constitution: The Congress shall have Power To... ...To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; and Congress shall make no law... ...ab…

Note that the power grant to Congress to establish copyright was in the original Constitution, while freedom of speech is protected by the First Amendment, which - as the name says - is an amendment , which, by definition, changes the existing powers. The legal argument for that, rather, is that all rights are implicitly limited, and that, depending on how important the right in question is, how small the limitation…

The meaning of free speech has changed dramatically over the past century. This is why things can seem so contradictory.

Like so much of Anglo-American law, Free Speech and Freedom of the Press is an application of the fundamental concept of Due Process of law. One facet of Due Process says that the government cannot single out individuals, groups, or specific types of behaviors unless there's a compelling reason and the targeting is necessary. All laws should be generally applicable and targeted to addressing identifiable harms, on the one hand, or achieving some broader policy objective on the other.

A.V. Dicey's 19th-century treatise on the British Constitution said that there was no need for an independent doctrine of Free Speech or Freedom of the Press because British law never had (at least, not in the then-recent history) and never would attempt to suppress speech as speech, or to single out newspapers as such. Libel, defamation, copyright and other so-called limitations on Free Speech aren't limitations at all because Free Speech isn't about freedom from the consequences of speech or prohibiting the government from remedying ill effects of speech or restricting them from activities that may incidentally limit speech. Those so-called limitations apply equally to everybody, so how could they operate to suppress particular ideas, opinions, or methods of communication? Likewise, Copyright doesn't favor anyone or any idea in particular, so it's not injurious to Free Speech, either.

So why did the Americans feel the need to singularly identify Free Speech and Freedom of the Press? Because continental Europe, and France in particular, had a history of laws that specifically and more strictly regulated the press, and regulated or prohibited particular opinions and ideas. Singling out Free Speech and Freedom of the Press was a way to explicitly reject the continental European approach. Remember, many colonists expressed the view that the enumeration of these and other rights in the Federal and State constitutions was, technically speaking, unnecessary because they were, strictly speaking, already protected by traditional legal doctrines and by the structures of government. The Bill of Rights was a boots & suspenders approach to constitutional law making.

None of this is to say that Parliament didn't pass laws that had the effect of limiting free speech. But how they did so mattered. Note that Free Speech and Freedom of the Press rights were also expressly put into many State constitutions. For well over a hundred years States regularly passed laws that heavily suppressed speech, but they were almost always upheld by State courts because the laws were expressed in terms of general applicability. In modern terminology they were "facially neutral", and there didn't exist a theory of judicial power that permitted courts to look beyond the face of the laws. (At least, not a theory that was widely held or that was thought useful to apply to speech issues.) And courts were far more credulous of State arguments that their laws were trying to prevent violence and mobs.

It wouldn't be until the 20th century that legal interpretations began to shift. Justices Brandeis and then Holmes propounded a novel (even radical) theory of Free Speech which demanded stricter scrutiny of laws and their effect on speech. It's adoption and application by SCOTUS has unfolded over the past nearly 100 years. This process continues today; scrutiny of laws effecting speech has become stricter and stricter every decade, even every year it seems. Moreover, what constitutes speech has expanded dramatically.

Make no mistake: Free Speech as understood in America today, and as defined by modern jurisprudence, is absolutely not an originalist interpretation of the constitution. If you like your modern Free Speech rights (as I do), don't thank the Founders; thank Brandeis and Holmes and their judicial activism.

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