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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#841

Post by CWuestefeld »

PeterisP wrote: post #811
CWuestefeld wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be the place of Government to ensure that these externalities are re-addressed (e.g. by taxing companies on every item of theirs which goes into landfill), and for us the citizens to lobby them to do so. That won't eliminate the externality. All appliances will now cost $X more. In the meantime, the government will have collected $X*N more revenue, but it won't have gone toward recycling the decommissioned…

It would make a difference - an appliance that would last 15 years would be $X more expensive, but buying 5 appliances that each last 3 years would cost 5*$X. If $X is meaningfully large, it becomes a strong motivation to prefer things that last longer.

It would make some difference, but it's only doing half the job. The tax would remove the manufacturer's incentive to sell additional units through planned obsolescence (or at least, to the degree that the government has the ability to calculate this).

But I feel confident in predicting that it won't address the other side of the coin, that revenue would be used to actually keep the old appliances out of landfills, and to recycle their components. I'm hard pressed to think of examples of putatively earmarked taxes where the entirety of the revenue still goes to what it was originally promised for.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#842

Post by DiabloD3 »

mrbill wrote: post #735
DiabloD3 wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also like to say Miele is immortal. My Miele vacuum was handed down to me by my mother when she died, and it's like a decade old and has zero issues. And even if it does have issues, replacement parts for it are still sold (mainly because today's models are virtually identical). Also, without the HEPA filter addon, it meets HEPA requirements (they're just not allowed to say so because HEPA sues anyone that didn't…

I'm not sure about the current quality of their products, but I bought a refurbished Dyson "Animal" vacuum (the purple and grey one) in 2003. We'd killed a couple of other vacuums previously (when you shave a St Bernard for a Texas summer...). 14 years later, I've never had to do any sort of major repair. Any problems I've ever had with the unit were fixed by taking it apart (without tools) and clearing the jam/clog.

Of the entire line, the Dyson Animal purple ones are the only acceptable ones, due to their complex filtering system attached to what is essentially twins of their highest end models.

Problem is, the HEPA filter in the Animal is about as good as modern Miele bags and non-HEPA filters... /w Miele's HEPA filter instead, it increases filtration rate 10x.

I looked into Dysons for my mom when she bought this... they're good vacuums, but they're not the best. I compared them to being an Apple or Cisco kind of product: everyone knows who they are, everyone thinks they're the best, but if you look around you can get something better.

As in, for every Apple there's a Microsoft (ala Surface), for every Cisco there's a Juniper, and for every Dyson there's a Miele.

I don't want the most expensive, or in some cases even objectively the best: I want something that has the lowest cognitive load of ownership: something that always works, something I don't have to question if I should have bought something else, something that has no killer flaws, something that is good across the board. Something I can be happy with.

Very few brands or product lines have ever made me a fan, all companies eventually ruin a good product, but Miele is on that incredibly exclusive list of companies that have made me a fan. When the end of this vacuum finally comes, I'm buying another Miele without hesitation.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#843

Post by collinmanderson »

roseburg wrote: post #784
Spooky23 wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundamentally, you can't serve a turd and call it steak. Power tools are an example of how to get it right. If I go to Home Depot and look for a drill, it's obvious from the branding, battery, warranty and physical characteristics which DeWalt drill is the "ok" consumer one, and which is a professional tool. (I use this as an example because I bought one yesterday) The problem with consumer appliances is that they us…

Author here, you are absolutely right. Want to see me angry? You should have seen me when I found out my 90 year old neighbor lady is on her second Whirlpool made vertical modular washer in the past 5 years. (top loading washer with the led lights on the control panel) Not everyone can afford to be ripped off and sold garbage washing machines that WILL break within 3 years. I think your power tool analogy is a good o…

When it comes to tools, I usually buy the cheap version at Harbor Freight first, and then if I end up using it enough that it breaks, I'll research and get something more reliable.

Also, thanks for the Krylon tip. I bought a house that came with a Hamilton clothes dryer from 1970. Works fine, no plastic parts, though it is starting to rust. (My main worry is that the heating element will eventually rust away and they don't make replacements.)

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#844

Post by eatbitseveryday »

expnsv_hdphns wrote: post #512

When I went to the first semester of engineering school at the University of Wisconsin - Madison, there was a class called Engineering Professional Development 160: Introduction to Engineering. One of the early class sessions was a lecture from a guy at a power tool company, making some kind of jigsaw or handheld cutting tool. He explicitly told us, paraphrasing, "You don't want to make your product too reliable, bec…

If engineers are taught this, I imagine orgs like NASA, SpaceX, Boeing etc. must surely hire individuals who do not subscribe to this idea. Reliability IS important in these areas.

In my opinion, what this individual told you should belong to a business lecture, not engineering. If your systems fail in engineering, you aren't doing your job right.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#845

Post by thebigspacefuck »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #386
WalterBright wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had many cars with electric windows. They all eventually failed, usually when it was raining, and the windows could not be raised. Fixing them would cost over $500. My truck now has hand cranked windows, and mechanical door locks. They're no trouble at all, and I'm happy with them.

I wasn't able to do that with my last car but I did avoid air conditioning, the salesman just couldn't grasp why I'd wait a week and pay the same for a car with less features.

I didn't even know you could get a car without A/C

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#846

Post by brokenmachine »

Arizhel wrote: post #831
ptaipale wrote: post #808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I was very confused when I got a rental car in the U.S. in about 2004 and it had a separate switch and yellow indicator light for "OD". In Europe such a thing was so ancient history that I'd never seen one and I had to read the car's handbook to understand what it meant.

I thought the entire reason to have an OD disable switch is for towing.

I seem to remember something in the manual of an old car I had with an OD switch about it making it not change gears repetitively when going up a slight incline?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#847

Post by nickpsecurity »

PietdeVries wrote: post #381
foobarian wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with the current market is that it's next to impossible to determine the quality of a machine. I would gladly pay $3000 for a washer if I could somehow tell that it will be better built, with higher quality metals, inner parts, and overall longer lasting. But it seems that the extra money these days just buys more flashy bells and whistles that just increase the chance of failure. Sadly my strategy has bee…

Could it be that the lifespan of a appliance is shortened because it his to be more energy-efficient? The old fridges (and car-engines, or antything) were not very economic. A few decades ago getting 10 km per liter of petrol was more or less standard. Now the engine with the same cilinders (1.6 liter for instance) easily get as much as 20 km for the same liter of petrol. The engine is highly optimized by cutting awa…

"Could it be that the lifespan of a appliance is shortened because it his to be more energy-efficient?"

No. It's designed to fail as the article shows. Many components are like this by implication where they're designed for everything but quality and longevity. Things that reduce those two. There could be some extra effect on the two traits due to energy efficiency. The overall problem is there by design. It's also very profitable. ;)

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#848

Post by brokenmachine »

GlennS wrote: post #519
PietdeVries wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be that the lifespan of a appliance is shortened because it his to be more energy-efficient? The old fridges (and car-engines, or antything) were not very economic. A few decades ago getting 10 km per liter of petrol was more or less standard. Now the engine with the same cilinders (1.6 liter for instance) easily get as much as 20 km for the same liter of petrol. The engine is highly optimized by cutting awa…

The converse can also apply. Energy efficiency means less energy converted to heat, noise, and unwanted movement. All of which can contribute to wear and tear. This is why people sometimes describe hard drives as "spinning rust".

I think the term "spinning rust" relates to the fact that the actual data is stored on ferromagnetic material, nothing to do with the energy usage.

I agree with you on the first paragraph.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#849

Post by Markoff »

I dunno, my father own Skandiluxe fridge for 15 or more years and only problem are doors slightly leaning on one side which could be resolved by switching their position. Mother has Bosch which has zero problems. Same goes for father's Electrolux washing machine with little issues working also around 15 years. And when i think about it there has been very few failures in anything we buy and if it happens it's usually get fast during warranty period and then after fixing it last, father's plasma LG had​ initially some problem but after fixing works more than ten years. So i can't really share the sentiment about such poor quality of appliances or electronics.

Also pretty much every Samsung or LG washing machine i see in promotion has 10 years warranty on engine, though i would be afraid about electronics.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#850

Post by jamaicahest »

Markoff wrote: post #849

I dunno, my father own Skandiluxe fridge for 15 or more years and only problem are doors slightly leaning on one side which could be resolved by switching their position. Mother has Bosch which has zero problems. Same goes for father's Electrolux washing machine with little issues working also around 15 years. And when i think about it there has been very few failures in anything we buy and if it happens it's usually…

> Also pretty much every Samsung or LG washing machine i see in promotion has 10 years warranty on engine, though i would be afraid about electronics.

So if the engine breaks, they will fix it. But what if the engine works fine, but the lid is filled with rust? Who is going to use a washing machine that looks like it could drop pieces of rust into the dirty clothes at any given time. And since the lid is not covored by the 10 year warranty, you can either throw out the whole machine or pay to get the lid repainted.

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