Live data from Hacker News

Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

admin.ch

831–840 of 891 posts

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#831
post #709
post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're partially right, some cultures are awful by any common usage of the word. The problem of course is that they're dogwhistle implying that this means all Afghan asylum seekers must be part of such cultures and therefore must be awful, which is of course not true.

[flagged]

> there might be 1% of Afghans out there who deserve compassion

Did you intend to say the quiet part out loud?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#832
post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is never true and just economic denialism. There is a market price for labor. If there is no supply at a given price it is not evidence that a market does not exist, only that the demand is mispriced. There can be situations where the market for a particular type of labor does not exist. Populations aren't infinite, and if there are enough good paying, desirable jobs for full employment, then there may be no o…

That's all nonsense. The market for anything isn't infinite. When S/D shifts the market price changes to reflect that. The price reflects the relative supply and demand. You seem to be operating under the delusion that prices must be fixed at where you desire them and that no market existing there is a failure. In fact the availability of goods and services in a market is a function of your willingness to pay a marke…

You very clearly did not understand what I wrote, so let's simplify this further.

There is one guy alone on an island. There are two lighthouses on the island. Each lighthouse needs an operator to function. The guy operates one of the lighthouses. How much do wages need to rise to get both lighthouses operating at the same time?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#833
post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is effectively paralysed in foreign affairs and a common fighter jet project died just today due to economic infighting. They're right.

This is a deeply dishonest characterization of the FCAS.

How so? Neither Germany nor France wanted to meaningly influence Airbus nor Dassault Aviation in any way to solve internal bickering. There was a ton of political bargaining over subsystems and job guarantees.

Of course, I can go off of what‘s publicly available.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#834
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand, action begins when the population hits 9.5M, so likely no-one gets kicked out, but fewer new visas will be approved, etc.

I am pretty sure there are many people living in swiss with temporary visa's and those will then be de facto kicked out, if they do not get their permissions extended.

Either these are already counted in the 9.5M, or they will continue not to be counted.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#835

What would they do if the natural birthrate were to tip it over the threshold? (Perhaps unlikely at current birthrates, but given that laws last long times, perhaps worth considering?)

The initiative does not mention what. Because the initiative's sponsor are anti-migration.

Yeah I'm aware -- just pointing out that this threshold could be reached by other means and the options for enforcing it if it happens via birthrate are all pretty grim.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#836
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not simple with the "clock-face scheduling" system which is used which times the trains to all meet at the big nodes (Zürich, Bern, Basel) so connections work. To achieve this trains are supposed to fit into 30/60/120 minute beats which synchronise the entire system. See [1,2] for how this works. Also many of the most important parts of the system are at capacity. Bigger trains can help but a lot of these gains…

I'm not saying this is wrong, that makes a lot of sense. But on the other hand why have I never heard of other, much more dense countries facing this problem? I just never hear of Japan, China, Germany, Taiwan, etc seeing overcrowded trains and raise their hands saying "there can't possibly be a solution!"

I have visited India, and if you ever travel on a train in Mumbai, you will understand what overpopulation really means. Your body will be pressed against other people’s bodies. To get on the train, you have to learn how to do gymnastics. They are absolutely not managing crowd better.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#837
post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes perfect sense. But clearly Switzerland, unlike America, barely has any proponents of Sharia-like Biblical law. This is a large cause of misunderstanding in threads like these by fellow Americans. Because the US has very similar people at home, it just looks like "potentially a little more of something there's already lots of, they'll never outgrow that existing group anyway, what are they even complaining…

My point is not actually "potentially a little more of something there's already lots of," but rather that the shittiness of people is not well correlated with what country they're from. I'm sure Switzerland has plenty of shitty locals, even if it might manifest in a different way. The reason I'm not afraid of Afghan refugees moving in isn't because I think their love of Sharia law will be drowned out by my other nei…

>but rather that the shittiness of people is not well correlated with what country they're from.

Would you say it even doesn't correlate in the US with what church they go to? Whether they go to a Fundamentalist Baptist church or are Quakers? I find that hard to imagine to be true in a meaningful way. And if it can be, then it can also hold for villages, cities and countries.

>I'm sure Switzerland has plenty of shitty locals, even if it might manifest in a different way.

The way it manifests is incredibly important and cannot be waved away. That's an entire half of what makes up the issue.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a calculable limit to the population an area of land can sustain. (Yes, some agricultural practices can mitigate that, but that should also be weighed against culture and history, and how much change is acceptable.) Ah yes, folks fighting the good Malthusian fight since 1798, and yet to see a win. LoL. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism#Criticism

I counter you with soil degradation, which is gradual (over decades, even centuries), and extremely difficult to reverse (millennia). We may yet discover that Malthus was right. Then what?? https://eu.boell.org/en/SoilAtlas-soil-degradation https://earth.org/95-of-the-earths-soil-on-course-to-be-degr... https://www.fao.org/about/meetings/soil-erosion-symposium/ke...

> We may yet discover that Malthus was right.

We may also discover that einstein-rosen bridges exist [1] or that aliens exist or that magic is real or that astrology works. Hopefully none of these things are keeping you up at night.

Also, broken clocks, twice a day right, etc etc. Clocks still broken.

> Then what??

Plenty of dystopian sci-fi available for your reading/viewing pleasure. [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dystopian_literature

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If this were the HN of ten years ago, I might have expressed similar sentiments. Between the comments in this thread though, and the complete lack of moderator attention, I can only come to the conclusion that xenophobia is perfectly fine on HN - provided you couch it in the appropriate rhetoric and don't use any mean words.

i deal with uncomfortable questions regularly so obviously there will be a bias on my part for handling them. it seems to me like a lot of people believe that shutting down questions is the best idea here. can you please explain to me why it is xenophobic to ask questions? i dont really see the link and i dont see why shutting people down for asking questions is a good idea.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#840
post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> there might be 1% of Afghans out there who deserve compassion Did you intend to say the quiet part out loud?

if you were a gay man, why would it benefit to you, being in close proximity to a sub population that believed your violent death was the best path forward? now im not saying youre gay, or that religion is bad, or anything else. im not asking any other questions either. im genuinely curious as to how you would respond in that particular scenario.
Post reply on HN