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Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

anthropic.com

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Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#831

Post by nla »

imjonse wrote: post #561
lebovic wrote: post #202

I used to work at Anthropic, and I wrote a comment on a thread earlier this week about the RSP update [1]. It's enheartening to see that leaders at Anthropic are willing to risk losing their seat at the table to be guided by values. Something I don't think is well understood on HN is how driven by ideals many folks at Anthropic are, even if the company is pragmatic about achieving their goals. I have strong signal th…

> I have strong signal that Dario, Jared, and Sam would genuinely burn at the stake before acceding to something that's a) against their values, I am sure you think they are better than the average startup executive, but such hyperbole puts the objectivity of your whole judgement under question. They pragmatically changed their views of safety just recently, so those values for which they would burn at the stake are…

Yea, that Sam only does this because, "he loves it." They're not in it for the money.

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#832

Post by pmarreck »

lebovic wrote: post #202

I used to work at Anthropic, and I wrote a comment on a thread earlier this week about the RSP update [1]. It's enheartening to see that leaders at Anthropic are willing to risk losing their seat at the table to be guided by values. Something I don't think is well understood on HN is how driven by ideals many folks at Anthropic are, even if the company is pragmatic about achieving their goals. I have strong signal th…

The same guy who thinks AGI will eliminate "centaur coders" (I respectfully disagree) and possibly all white-collar work, is now concerned about the misuse of the same AI to make war? That's cute.

Literally just giving business away. This is not a cynical take, this is a realistic one.

This would be like agreeing to have your phone regularly checked by your spouse and citing the need for fidelity on principle. No one would like that, no smart person would agree to that, and anyone with any sense or self-respect would find another spouse to "work with".

They will simply go to another vendor... Anthropic is not THAT far ahead.

Also, the US’s enemies are not similarly restricted. /eyeroll

Palmer Luckey ("peace through superior firepower") is the smart one, here. Dario Amodei ("peace through unilateral agreement with no one, to restrict oneself by assuming guilt of business partners until innocence is proven") is not.

Anthropic could have just done what real spouses do. Random spot checks in secret, or just noticing things. >..And if a betrayal signal is discovered, simply charge more and give less, citing suspicious activity…

… since it all goes through their servers.

Honestly, I'm glad that they're principled. The problem is that 1) most people in general are, so to assume the opposite is off-putting; 2) some people will always not be. And the latter will always cause you trouble if you don't assert dominance as the "good guy", frankly.

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#833

Post by amai »

I don't trust the statement of Anthropic too much. In the past they have done things like

- https://the-decoder.com/anthropics-head-of-safeguards-resear...

- https://the-decoder.com/anthropics-ceo-admits-compromising-w... (see also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44651971, https://futurism.com/leaked-messages-ceo-anthropic-dictators)

- https://the-decoder.com/anthropic-ceo-dario-amodei-backs-pre...

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#834

Post by Aperocky »

whstl wrote: post #700
lebovic wrote: post #202

I used to work at Anthropic, and I wrote a comment on a thread earlier this week about the RSP update [1]. It's enheartening to see that leaders at Anthropic are willing to risk losing their seat at the table to be guided by values. Something I don't think is well understood on HN is how driven by ideals many folks at Anthropic are, even if the company is pragmatic about achieving their goals. I have strong signal th…

> Something I don't think is well understood on HN is how driven by ideals many folks at Anthropic are After 20 years of everyone in this industry saying "we want to make the world a better place" and doing the opposite, the problem here is not really related to people's "understanding". And before the default answer kicks in: this is not cynicism. Plenty of folks here on HN and elsewhere legitimately believe that it…

Reminds me of Effective Altruism and the collective results of people claiming to believe in that virtue.

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#835

Post by einpoklum »

The first sentence was quite enough:

> I believe deeply in the existential importance of using AI to defend the United States and other democracies, and to defeat our autocratic adversaries.

Ah, another head of a huge corporation swears to defend his stockholders' commercial interests through imperial war against other nation-states. And of course "we" are democratic while "they" are autocratic.

The main thing that's disappointing is how some people here see him or his company as "well-intentioned".

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#836

Post by moozooh »

reasonableklout wrote: post #447
bnr-ais wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropic had the largest IP settlement ($1.5 billion) for stolen material and Amodei repeatedly predicted mass unemployment within 6 months due to AI. Without being bothered about it at all. It is a horrible and ruthless company and hearing a presumably rich ex-employee painting a rosy picture does not change anything.

Pretty sure Amodei makes noise about mass unemployment because he is very bothered by the technology that the entire industry (of which Anthropic just one player) is racing to build as fast as possible? Why do you think he is not bothered at all, when they publish post after post in their newsroom about the economic effects of AI?

They stand to benefit from every one of those effects and already do. They have a stake in the game bigger than any other parties' because they sell both the illness and a cure.

Amodei's noise is little more than half-hearted advertising even if it's not intended to have that reading (although who can even tell at this point). His newsroom publishes a report on a mass-scale data breach perpetrated using their model with conclusions delivered in a demonstrably detached, almost casual tone: yeah, the world is like this now but it's a good thing we have Claude to protect you from Claude, so you better start using Claude before Claude gets you. They released a new, more powerful Claude, immediately after that breach. No public discussion, nothing. This is not the behavior of people who are bothered by it.

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#837

Post by sithamet »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #745
sithamet wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, as someone from a country that has been attacked and dragged into war, I would prefer machines fighting (and being destroyed autonomously) rather than my people dying, nor people from any nation that came to help. That's as Anthropic as it gets if your nerve expands a little bit further than your HOA.

> would prefer machines fighting (and being destroyed autonomously) rather than my people dying But the reality is more like the surprise of a bunch of submersible kill bots terrorising a coastal city and murdering people. Even in bot-first combat, at some point one side of bots wins either totally, allowing it to kill people indiscriminately or partially, which forces the team on the back foot to pivot to guerilla w…

Humans actually do exactly the same, google Mariupol or Bucha or what drones (human-piloted) are doing in Cherson, so the city is all covered by fishnet. Machines delay the moment people start dying; true not only for military applications btw.

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#838

Post by einpoklum »

helaoban wrote: post #106

All of these problems are downstream of the Congress having thoroughly abdicated its powers to the executive. The military should be reigned in at the legislative level, by constraining what it can and cannot do under law. Popular action is the only way to make that happen. Energy directed anywhere else is a waste. Private corporations should never be allowed to dictate how the military acts. Such a thought would be…

> Congress having thoroughly abdicated its powers to the executive.

Good thing the US is led by such figures as Donald Trump or Joseph Biden, stalwart trustworthy men with their hands firmly on the wheel.

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#839

Post by Aperocky »

nla wrote: post #831
imjonse wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have strong signal that Dario, Jared, and Sam would genuinely burn at the stake before acceding to something that's a) against their values, I am sure you think they are better than the average startup executive, but such hyperbole puts the objectivity of your whole judgement under question. They pragmatically changed their views of safety just recently, so those values for which they would burn at the stake are…

Yea, that Sam only does this because, "he loves it." They're not in it for the money.

That's not fair, Sam can love money too and there is no conflict here.

Re: Statement from Dario Amodei on our discussions with the Department of War

#840

Post by zombot »

SilverElfin wrote: post #425
panarky wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the Defense Production Act force employees to continue working at Anthropic?

[flagged]

> fake wars

Once a war has started, it won't be fake any more.

> they’ll definitely declare wars to extend the presidency.

You don't exchange the Fraudster in Chief while at war, so they do want a war. Any war. But I have the strange impression that von Clownstick doesn't want to be seen as having started it by himself.

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