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IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

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Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#831

Post by mattmaroon »

tdeck wrote: post #820
mattmaroon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s strange to me when otherwise intelligent people call this genocide. Genocide is an attempt to exterminate an entire people. Israel is a nuclear armed nation fighting against the equivalent of Dayton, OH. If genocide were the goal this war would have lasted one day. Collective punishment, or a long term ethnic cleansing would be much more accurate, but you’re just repeating what you read unthinkingly if you say g…

This is one of the worst pro-Israel arguments; I can't believe people still make it. Israel isn't going to drop a nuke on the "holy land", where they want to start building Jewish settlements, a few dozen miles from Tel Aviv. No matter how much they hate Palestinians, people don't want to live in an irradiated wasteland.

By nuclear-armed I’m pointing out that they’re a well-funded, first class military, not that they’re going to nuke the place. They’re arguably the second strongest military in the world.

They could have achieved genocide very quickly with conventional weapons and boots on the ground too.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#832

Post by manyaoman »

mattmaroon wrote: post #643
manyaoman wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that I just spent five minutes thinking about it proves that it's not ridiculous at all. The scale is different (so far), but I’m not convinced there’s a qualitative difference.

Most people spend more than five minutes a day thinking about things that are ridiculous.

Do you? I don't think I do. Unproductive, sure, but not ridiculous.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#833

Post by mattmaroon »

padjo wrote: post #618
mattmaroon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s strange to me when otherwise intelligent people call this genocide. Genocide is an attempt to exterminate an entire people. Israel is a nuclear armed nation fighting against the equivalent of Dayton, OH. If genocide were the goal this war would have lasted one day. Collective punishment, or a long term ethnic cleansing would be much more accurate, but you’re just repeating what you read unthinkingly if you say g…

So by your logic if you slowly exterminate a people its not genocide?

You cannot exterminate a people too slowly because they can (and do) move. Ethnic cleansing can happen over centuries (see the last 500 years of our hemisphere for examples). Israel has let tens of thousands of them out of the country. Nazis did not let injured Jews go to hospitals in other countries.

Which, again, is not dismissing war crimes, or denying that any have occurred. Just pointing out, this is not genocide but ethnic cleansing. Israel has a vocal right wing faction that advocates for ethnic cleansing, and a vocal left wing that is against it.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#834

Post by boppo1 »

sharts wrote: post #744
austin-cheney wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If video evidence indicates IDF personnel committing these crimes also happen to be US citizens I wonder if those people could face criminal prosecution in the US. As an American I wouldn't want to live next to or do business with a serial murderer. I certainly wouldn't want them coaching my kids sports or other community involvement.

Israel doesn’t extradite to the US. Hence why so many pedos escape to there

Our greatest ally doesn't extradite??

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#835

Post by Nexxxeh »

rngfnby wrote: post #625
ceejayoz wrote: post #127

I remember when folks here were shilling the "Israel promises they'd never bomb a hospital" and "Hamas is lying about the death toll" lines. All the hospitals are now rubble, and the IDF quietly let it slip that the death toll is legit recently. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2026-01-29/ty-article/.p... There's damning video of this specific incident, recovered from the dead. I suspect subsequent massacres made…

It's important to note that the official death toll, acknowledged by the IDF, are of those whose bodies have been recovered. Nor has the genocide stopped.

[flagged]

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#837

Post by dotancohen »

truetraveller wrote: post #726
dotancohen wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Israeli and I speak regularly with Arabs. Now mostly with Israeli Arabs but prior to October 2023 I spoke often enough with West Bankers. Every Arab I've spoken with on the topic, states that Israel should have hit Gaza harder and sooner. That's from Arabs in the south (Bedouins) and along the coastal plain and Haifa ('48ers). The Israeli Arabs are more extreme in their viewpoint towards Gaza (not only Hamas) tha…

Okay, this is surprising. But why? Are these Muslim Israeli Arabs? Or Jewish/Christian Arabs?

Muslims Arabs. I talk with them often in Arabic as I'm learning the language. Some Bedouin have family in the strip, most Hamas detractors are Bedouin from what I've been told.

The Arabs are not coy - they tell it exactly as it is. I'll be speaking to someone in what I perceive a pleasant conversation, and he'll mention something that I'll realise this guy would murder me under slightly different circumstances - while being hospitable. Their culture is not easy for us to comprehend.

Arab society has power struggles as a feature. There is always punching and slapping between family members, and there are always fueds with other extended families. For example, if one wants to find a wife or a job, his family needs honour. So he or his brothers go out and shoot up another family's complex. They are not trying to kill anybody, there are huge consequences if somebody dies. But they do some damage to display that they are an honourable (I guess tough) family, and now the younger family member can find a job or a wife. And this is how, they say, Israel should handle Gaza. When Gaza tries to gain honour in the eyes of their society, they need to be put back in place in a way that they understand culturally. Otherwise Israel will be the family that everybody shoots at.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#838

Post by manyaoman »

mattmaroon wrote: post #833
padjo wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So by your logic if you slowly exterminate a people its not genocide?

You cannot exterminate a people too slowly because they can (and do) move. Ethnic cleansing can happen over centuries (see the last 500 years of our hemisphere for examples). Israel has let tens of thousands of them out of the country. Nazis did not let injured Jews go to hospitals in other countries. Which, again, is not dismissing war crimes, or denying that any have occurred. Just pointing out, this is not genocid…

That definition of genocide is so narrow that it would also exclude the Armenian genocide, since many were allowed to flee.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#839

Post by croes »

komali2 wrote: post #801
_HMCB_ wrote: post #743

The downtrodden have become the oppressor.

I think about this a lot re: Israel. I had a conversation once with an Israeli where he was convinced "everyone is racist," but we're all too woke to admit it or something, or have some belief that racism is wrong but work to overcome this inherent thing. His arguments were all very zero sum, "if we didn't do it to them they'd do it to us," and from conversations with friends I'm thinking that what's happening here i…

> "if we didn't do it to them they'd do it to us,"

And he didn’t think that Hamas could use the same lame excuse for their terror?

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#840

Post by naasking »

friendzis wrote: post #799
bawolff wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the only defense here would be if the soldiers came up with some reasonable explanation of why they thought the vehicles were hostile. Its kind of hard to imagine, especially with shooting the follow up vehicles, but motive seems like the only unclear part where there is any potential for a defense. One part that is really confusing, is if they knowingly intentionally targeted the ambulance because they thoug…

Intimidation tactics do not work well without someone to tell the story.

I think people being murdered is pretty good intimidation frankly.
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