Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nope. Merchant pays.
And who pays the merchant? I think you're this close to getting it...
> And who pays the merchant?
Card and cash users alike.
Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
831–840 of 1001 posts
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#832Whatever they come up with, I hope it doesn't tie you to a Google or Apple smartphone. Can't we have cards for this? In Spain, for example, to use Bizum, you need either an Android/iOS smartphone (and for the Android case, as you use it from your bank's app, it would typically require some Google security assurances - so no Huawei phones allowed, for example) or logging into your bank's website and use Bizum from the…
They should just do on the lines of what India has been doing with UPI and Brazil with Pix. Both massively successful at this point. Of course take their good parts. By the way, since you wondered, it seems to be > built around the digital wallet Wero and wikipedia says its a mobile payments method. I hope not. I hope it's rather an interface/spec. (On a side note, I also hope individual countries of EU ensure that t…
EPI is the interface and it's built upon SEPA and TARGET standards.
Wero is the implementation. I think it makes sense to provide a turnkey solution to all participating banks, so that we don't have 100+ versions of the same app.
Countries that don't want to trust EPI (or simply outside the Eurozone) are able to take the same path as Bizum in Spain, and make their domestic solution interoperate with EPI instead of replacing it.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#833Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would you expect to be able to use a creditcard in a physical shop in the Netherlands? Surely you knew? It works if the payment terminal has support for it, but since no Dutch person uses a creditcard outside of the internet, your kinda going against the grain.
Why would you expect people not living in the Netherlands to just know this? In South Africa where I live, anywhere that accepts cards accepts Visa and Mastercard. Outside of the "informal business" sector (e.g. tiny "businesses" like a roadside stall), card acceptance is so ubiquitous I don't carry cash anymore and it's very rarely an issue.
> Why would you expect people not living in the Netherlands to just know this?
It’s generally a good idea to learn something about your travel destination and not to assume everything there is the same as where you live. The world is big and diverse.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#834Earlier quoted context omitted.
And now you have invented Visa and MasterCard again.
Rather a dissociated escrowing from payment processing. When you go to your local restaurant, do groceries you are paying a few percentage in tax for using you card. Platforms online already act as escrow anyway. PayPal, Stripe, act as escrow..yes they take a percentage, but that's more granted for these cases.
I'm confused by your comment.
PayPal and Stripe are the payment processors who are taxing the card usage and acting as escrow. The technology part of transactions is with Visa and MasterCard. Who will do that part for free if they are not to be involved? What would be the benefit of separating escrow and processing, and how would it realistically be done?
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#835Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is not. https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/private-debt-to-gd... The widespread use with "buy now pay later" also counters your wildly baseless claim. Klarna, PayPal 30 days etc.
Your link counts all types of debt including mortgages which is the reason why Luxembourg comes up first.
The argument was, at least how I read it, that europe doesn't rely on credit that much. My argument is: we do. We just don't have 20 credit cards at a 45k debt level. But we have enough other stuff.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#836I don't see an alternative to Visa and Mastercard being discussed in the article. I just see ways of making bank transfers easier. Banks generally don't provide ways to dispute transactions, which is why fraudsters generally use bank transfer mechanisms. Once your money leaves your account, it is possibly gone, and once it leaves the country it is definitely gone. Banks here are now inserting delays on transfers in a…
Existing mobile wallets in Europe and beyond are absolutely eating into the market share of Visa and MC. Fraudulent transactions aren't that common since SCA became mandatory. Getting a chargeback in Europe is not trivial, this will change nothing to most consumers.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#837Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are many countries where debit cards are the norm and credit cards are extremely rare. In France, people are so afraid of consumer credit that cards are renamed ‘deferred debit cards’ rather than credit cards, otherwise people do not want them.
Growing up in the EU, living in North America now, it's mind blowing to me how much credit these companies are making available to me. Not that I ever would outside of an actual emergency but I can see how it's tempting to someone who didn't grow up in a financial risk averse society.
It's amazing. Meanwhile your fellow Europeans wouldn't trust to lend you their power drill for a weekend, even if you've known each other for 30 years.
My European business banks have never offered any kind of line of credit. Of course they probably would if I needed, and went there to grovel and prostrate myself. In contrast, my American business bank just sends unprompted e-mails sometimes asking if I would like to borrow a bunch of money.
American trust is based on rationality and intuition, while European trust is based on rules and authority. That's why business can flourish much more in the USA.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#838Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is comical. Exchanging one set of US overlords for another. I suppose it is possible to use a degoogled android but most people won't be doing that.
Not even that. Most banking apps have a requirement that android is "certified" by google, ex. They won't run on GrapheneOS
Yep, I'm using Murena, a fork of Lineage OS but have to have a google account to use my banking app. I'm not even sure the bank understand this requirement exists.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#839Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is they will keep trying just like before, and they only need to get lucky once to succeed, while we need to be lucky very single time.
This is a truism, but not that helpful. I have to be lucky every time I leave the house not to be murdered, but it doesn't substantially change my behaviour. Rather than freaking out or catastrophising we just need to focus on asserting and celebrating and educating citizens in our shared values (murdering is bad, privacy is important).
Nah, I think in this metaphor we need to lock up Mr.Stabby McStabFace instead of just allowing him to go without punishment for his repeated efforts to legalize face-stabbing.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#840Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like sepa, this initiative can be forced by law and made open rather than tanken hostage by large cooperates, which may then exclude parts of the market.
Very European approach: the winner is chosen by law. Is Wero really a success? According to this article, in 2024 it processed over €7.5 billion. Polish BLIK, which is not even mentioned in the article and which has joined the EuroPA Alliance, processed €83 billion in 2024, with a 30% y/y increase in H1 2025. I understand that BLIK is much older, but it invested significant effort and money in marketing and promotion…
> Very European approach: the winner is chosen by law
Isn't that like the entire purpose of government and law - to help citizens come to a consensus?