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Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#831

Post by IncreasePosts »

terminalbraid wrote: post #784
WarmWash wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, I hate Tesla and Elon as much as the next naysayer But just to keep the story straight Tesla received ~$3 billion in subsidies. When Elon exercised his Tesla options in 2021, he paid $11 billion in taxes on it. By all accounts those subsidies were an incredibly good use of taxpayer money, and similar subsidies should keep being handed out, even if the byproduct is another big troll on twitter.

> Trust me, I hate Tesla and Elon as much as the next naysayer But then you go to defend them as if it were something you're obligated to do. I think you demonstrably do not hate Tesla and Elon as much as the next naysayer.

I call this the 12 fingered hitler, frequently seen on reddit.

It goes like this:

Person A makes up some unsupported fact about a despised figure. For example, "Hitler had 12 fingers".

Person B comes in and says "I think Hitler just had 10 fingers like normal"

And then person A or some other person responds "holy shit dude, I can't believe you're defending Hitler!"

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#832

Post by yalogin »

Looks like they are not selling the larger vehicles at all, so why not kill the truck too? It’s god awful and a flop. Ego? Or thy want to try to revive it?

What they are really signaling though is with EVs they are not able to differentiate between the higher and lower cost models enough to show value to the higher end models. This is a huge failure IMO. Model S was the OG car that really was looked up to when it launched. It did have them luxury image, by not matching the build and interior of the car to the image Tesla really dropped the ball. Now the S is seen as inferior to the other luxury cars in that price range and so it’s becoming tough for Tesla to differentiate between the 3 and S.

This actually brings up the larger question, does musk care about cars at all at this point? Or does he just want to move on to robots? Feels like his heart is not on the cars.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#833

Post by SR2Z »

testing22321 wrote: post #742
sgjohnson wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pure logic that Tesla has to pursue bets that would justify billion dollar valuations and being a car company isn't that. But it's make-believe. Tesla is a car manufacturer. They haven't shipped anything else other than cars. And they even suck at making cars these days. Tesla Semi? All but dead. The new roadster? Also dead. Full Self Driving? Doesn't exist. Robotaxis? Even if they got them to work, at this po…

I know it’s popular to hate on Elon and therefore Tesla, but you need to be accurate when doing so. They’re still chipping away. > Tesla Semi?All but dead. They’ve been running a pilot all this time, and the factory in Nevada to mass produce them is on schedule. Production ramp is second half of this year. The factory is ginormous. > The new roadster? Also dead. Elon said yesterday the unveil is in April “hopefully”…

> Cars are driving passengers around Austin now with nobody in either front seat.

This is a good example of Tesla being sketchy: https://electrek.co/2026/01/28/teslas-unsupervised-robotaxis...

Musk made the announcement before earnings, put a few cars on the road, and now has pulled them all back because the earnings report is out.

This is a little more than doing it publicly - remember, Musk has been saying FSD will be functional every year for more than a decade.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#834

Post by marcusverus »

radlad wrote: post #741
vladms wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Tesla was valued fairly I think it's a wrong mental model to think of stock market value as "fair" or "unfair" (or maybe it's just me thinking of "unfair" when I see the word "fair"). My impression is that if Tesla would be valued based on quantifiable things it would be much much lower (production costs, competition, revenues, potential, etc.). Of course, you shouldn't value something only based on quantifiable…

I assume OP meant something closer to "fair market value" than "fair vs. unfair." Tesla is not priced according to its underlying assets or technical analysis (e.g. P/E ratio), but solely based on hype/sentiment. Interestingly, retail investors and company insiders collectively own more of Tesla than institutional investors.

Fair market value: the price at which a thing would change hands between a willing and informed buyer and seller.

A company's market cap is, by definition, its fair market value.

> Tesla is not priced according to its underlying assets or technical analysis (e.g. P/E ratio), but solely based on hype/sentiment.

You're right that it's not priced according to underlying assets, but it doesn't follow that it is priced on vibes. Its price is based on potential future earnings; the expectation that Elon can pull off his plans for a robotaxi fleet or building an Optimus robot that might unlock the massive demand for household and/or general use commercial robots. Both offer the prospect of being the first mover into markets which could be worth trillions. It's speculation, sure, but not mere "vibes". The company is also led by a man who has made and delivered on massive, seemingly impossible promises, which adds credibility to the idea that Tesla might actually bring these markets into existence.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#835

Post by malshe »

moralestapia wrote: post #578
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has become a meme stock. The stock's performance is disconnected from the company's performance. I agree that Tesla has clear strengths, like the vast amount of data they've collected from their cars, and their charging network, but it's also obvious that something is going very, very wrong with that company. The stock value is not reflecting that.

Tesla is trading at 10x its revenue, which is kind of OK, so there's that. (Do. Not. Look. At. P/E.)

10x revenue for a company with declining sales is way overvalued.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#836

Post by Deklomalo »

Traster wrote: post #517
sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

I think you're totally wrong on this. Tesla didn't waste the first mover advantage. They benefitted from it whilst it existed, but Electric vehicles turned into a commodity, which was entirely expected and there's no moat. You've explained yourself why it would be untenable for Musk to pursue becoming the biggest car manufacturer in the world - if he succeeded in that goal... he would have succeded in shrinking the v…

[dead]

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#837

Post by Arainach »

usaphp wrote: post #782
sgjohnson wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pure logic that Tesla has to pursue bets that would justify billion dollar valuations and being a car company isn't that. But it's make-believe. Tesla is a car manufacturer. They haven't shipped anything else other than cars. And they even suck at making cars these days. Tesla Semi? All but dead. The new roadster? Also dead. Full Self Driving? Doesn't exist. Robotaxis? Even if they got them to work, at this po…

> And they even suck at making cars these days Aren’t model Y and model 3 considered the best cars in their class by most motor journalists?

No, not by a long shot, unless you define "class" so tightly as to only include those vehicles and no competitors.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#838

Post by WorldMaker »

poulpy123 wrote: post #604
hashtag-til wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget Renault 5!

Is it an good car ?

Good enough that Ford is planning to slap their badge on it and hope Europe doesn't forget Ford while they are busy not actually manufacturing EVs.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#839

Post by memish »

sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

1. Tesla has $40B in cash and is profitable. To say it's worth $5B is beyond absurd.

2. The market determines what is a fair value, not rando haters on the internet. Even professional Wall Street consensus is that it's fair value at approximately $1.2T market cap.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#840

Post by sjsdaiuasgdia »

gkfasdfasdf wrote: post #780
sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

> And to add insult to injury, even GM Super Cruise is widely renowned as better and safer than Tesla’s current “FSD”. Do you have any sources for that claim? I can attest that current iteration of FSD is very, very good, and very likely is a safer driver than I am. At least one major insurance company agrees [0]. I don't have any experience with Super Cruise though. [0] - https://www.lemonade.com/fsd

> At least one major insurance company agrees

You mean the insurance company that has only existed for 10 years and I never heard of before this Tesla tie-in marketing gimmick?

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