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FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

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Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#831

Post by JumpCrisscross »

renewiltord wrote: post #718
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Protesting is not something you should do "casually” Neither is violently undermining our Constitutional order. These folks should be on notice that they will be prosecuted. If we played by Trump’s book, we’d charge them with treason and then let them appeal against the death penalty for the rest of their lives.

Realistically, we now know that the Hunter Biden Pardon (preemptive) is available and the Capitol Riots Pardon (mass pardon) is available. Given that, it’s only optimal for an outgoing cynical Republican President to preemptively pardon his allies on the street.

> we now know that the Hunter Biden Pardon (preemptive) is available and the Capitol Riots Pardon (mass pardon) is available

No we don’t. Nobody has tested these in court. Trump has no incentive to.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#832

Post by JumpCrisscross »

solaris2007 wrote: post #742
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Protesting is not something you should do "casually” Neither is violently undermining our Constitutional order. These folks should be on notice that they will be prosecuted. If we played by Trump’s book, we’d charge them with treason and then let them appeal against the death penalty for the rest of their lives.

If Trump actually wanted to violently undermine the constitutional order there would be a lot of dead judges by now.

> If Trump actually wanted to violently undermine the constitutional order there would be a lot of dead judges by now

Hitler’s brown shirts didn’t start by killing judges. They started with voter (and lawmaker) intimidation.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#833

Post by JumpCrisscross »

themafia wrote: post #712
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Protesting is not something you should do "casually” Neither is violently undermining our Constitutional order. These folks should be on notice that they will be prosecuted. If we played by Trump’s book, we’d charge them with treason and then let them appeal against the death penalty for the rest of their lives.

> Neither is violently undermining our Constitutional order. Ah, the "ends justify the means" then? Is this something you want applied _against_ you? Seems reckless. > These folks should be on notice that they will be prosecuted. They will not. > If we played by Trump’s book Moral relativism will turn you into the thing you profess to hate. > we’d charge them with treason and then let them appeal against the death pe…

> Is this something you want applied _against_ you?

It’s literally happening. And sure. If I try to murder the Vice President or murder Americans as part of a political stunt, hold me to account. Those were the rules I thought we were all playing by.

> If you want something to change you stand no chance with this attitude

Strongly disagree. There are new political tools on the table. Unilaterally disarming is strategically stupid.

> if you want to avoid FBI attention then take your heart off your sleeve and smarten up

I’m going to bet I’ve gotten more language written into state and federal law than you have. That isn’t a flex. It’s just me saying that I know how to wield power, it and doesn’t come from trying to avoid crooked federal agents. If they’re crooked, they’ll come for you when you speak up. In my experience, they’re more bark than bite.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#834

Post by idiotsecant »

brightball wrote: post #820
glaugh wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean just technically trivial? I agree with that. If you mean more broadly trivial, I see that quite differently. An administration that has repeatedly abused its power in order to intimidate and punish political opponents is opening an investigation into grassroots political opponents. That feels worth being concerned about.

I don’t like political power being used to go after an intimidate opponents at all, but we can’t pretend that it wasn’t a constant during the previous admin. If I recall correctly, they actually set the precedent here by adding civil war era conspiracy charges to put an additional 10 years on women who protested in front of an abortion clinic. AI summary… > Six of the protesters (including Heather Idoni) were convict…

'protested' by forcibly precenting individual civilians access to medical care? Sure, this seems the same.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#835

Post by mikkupikku »

themafia wrote: post #709
eleventyseven wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protesting is a fundamental human right and obligation. It is something that you should do as casually as you would voting, volunteering, and taking out the garbage: something you do from time to time when the moment demands it. See also: https://enwp.org/Chilling_effect

[flagged]

Governments are natural; nature abhors a vacuum.

Governments which at least pay lip service to the premise of respecting people's rights are another matter entirely.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#836

Post by nailer »

glaugh wrote: post #596
mw888 wrote: post #523

There seems to be wild speculation about freedom of speech rights or hacking Signal. The FBI simply joined groupchats and read them. This is trivial stuff.

Do you mean just technically trivial? I agree with that. If you mean more broadly trivial, I see that quite differently. An administration that has repeatedly abused its power in order to intimidate and punish political opponents is opening an investigation into grassroots political opponents. That feels worth being concerned about.

> grassroots political opponents

Organised criminal activity.

Edit: I’m not complaining about moderation but it would be fascinating to know what part of this others believe is incorrect:

- Do you think the Anti ICE groups are not organised?

- Do you think obstructing federal officers is not criminal?

- Something else.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#837

Post by nailer »

direwolf20 wrote: post #826
zahlman wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any opposition is a crime of impeding and obstruction No; conspiracy to impede and obstruct is a crime. If you are about to do something I don't want you to do, but which is lawful for you to do, 1A covers me saying "hey, don't do that". It does not cover me physically positioning myself in a way that prevents you from doing it. And if you happen to be an LEO and the thing you're about to do is a law enforcement ac…

One of the victims was blocking half the low traffic road and intending for people to pass freely on the other half. The other was filming from a distance.

[flagged]

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#838

Post by filoeleven »

renewiltord wrote: post #718
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Protesting is not something you should do "casually” Neither is violently undermining our Constitutional order. These folks should be on notice that they will be prosecuted. If we played by Trump’s book, we’d charge them with treason and then let them appeal against the death penalty for the rest of their lives.

Realistically, we now know that the Hunter Biden Pardon (preemptive) is available and the Capitol Riots Pardon (mass pardon) is available. Given that, it’s only optimal for an outgoing cynical Republican President to preemptively pardon his allies on the street.

That only works for federal charges. Just don’t tell that to the president. Or do, he won’t remember anyway.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#839

Post by duskdozer »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #724
heavyset_go wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is stuff really as bad as it looks or are media somehow exaggerating things? If you think what you've seen is bad, consider how bad the stuff you don't see is, and then consider how bad it is for those who aren't the type to post on HN.

Also consider that there are 340 million people in the US. With that sort of population size, you can construct whatever narrative you want out of daily video clips of 1-in-a-million events. >the type to post on HN. When's the last time you saw a Trump supporter on this site? The userbase here is considerably further left than a very left-wing state such as California. That will very much be reflected in what gets po…

>When's the last time you saw a Trump supporter on this site?

Many in this very thread, actually.

>The userbase here is considerably further left than a very left-wing state such as California.

Considering any fixture in American politics "very left-wing" is already an indicator of how skewed right the perspective is. The signature policy goal of the stereotypical "far-left" American politician (Bernie Sanders) is a government healthcare system already present in many countries around the world, including many less developed than the US.

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