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Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright

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Re: Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright

#831

Post by Y_Y »

exmadscientist wrote: post #704
crazygringo wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating. I just looked up a bit of research on it, and it seems there are two contradicting phenomena at play. Flashing helps in seeing cyclists further away and helps with visibility generally -- but it also makes it harder to estimate speed and distance. Apparently, the absolute safest solution is to have two rear lights side-by-side -- one that is always on and one that is always flashing. It doesn't seem like…

Flashing on-off and always on aren't the only options. I wish more designers went with flashing bright-dim, because it solves a lot of problems. I once worked on a device where we were required to blink the Important Safety Light™ on-off. I often glanced at this light out of the corner of my eye, and saw that it was off, so we were Safe™. We were not Safe™: it was just in the off phase of its blink. I am very glad I…

This is a strong point. Nobody likes a rapidly flashing light (extra annoying, seems broken, can be hard to differentiate from "on but dim"). Then again if you flash slowly then you'll have some appreiable amount of time when it's off and that can include the entire opportunity you have to look at something.

Ideally (for me) you could have smooth high-low alternation or colour alternation.

(I recognize that something that looks like emergency services, e.g. alternating blue/white may be illegal, and that colour-blindness may limit this approach.)

Re: Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright

#832

Post by GrinningFool »

japhyr wrote: post #456
0xfeba wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lately, I see a lot of drivers who turn on their brights and just leave them on and this includes cars with the older halogen and even incandescents. This is a change in behavior. This is one of my pet peeves. I've categorized it into what I believe are the main causes: 1. People just don't know as well today that the blue indicator means you're blinding people 2. People with newer cars which will automatically tur…

> Mostly I'm hoping that automatic high-beams, like some Ford trucks I've seen do well, proliferate more! I have a 2021 Tacoma, and its automatic high-beam adjustment is terrible. It does a reasonable job of turning high beams off when a car approaches, but it has a number of problems that make it unusable. After the car passes it waits too long to reactivate the high beams. That's when they're needed most; my eyes h…

> That's when they're needed most; my eyes have already adjusted to the other car's headlights

On a purely practical note from someone who is very light-sensitive, a combination of partially closing the eye closest to the light and fixing your gaze on the the outer edge of your lane (such as lane marker or eode of road) almost eliminates this problem, even for modern stupid-bright headlights.

Added benefit of letting you see more of your own lane in spite of the oncoming lights.

Re: Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright

#833

Post by MobiusHorizons »

crazygringo wrote: post #654
jandrese wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blinding and dazzling oncoming traffic in the name of safety is outright stupid. If you are riding a bike and you're lighting up the heads of oncoming riders or pedestrians you are being dangerous and obnoxious. Never shine a flashlight above someone's shoulders at night if you can help it.

What are you talking about? Did you mean to reply to a different comment? Bicycle lights aren't blinding anybody. At least none I've ever seen. They're powered by little batteries usually. The subject at hand was whether they flash or not. Not their brightness, which I've never heard anybody complain about.

They 100% are. I’m a cyclists in Seattle ride to and from work 4-5 days a week. This time of year it’s dark by 5pm so bike lights are on full force on the home commute. Being dazzled by oncoming bikes happens almost every trip. I absolutely hate it, it’s sometimes even worse than the cars, although car headlights have caught up in awfulness in the last few years. My least favorite type of overly bright bike lights are the blinding and also blinking rear red lights.

People do it for safety, but it doesn’t help. I literally can’t see where you are if you have a bright light shining in my face. The same thing is true if I’m in a car. As long as you have lights I can see you. If your lights are obnoxiously bright and especially if they are blinking you have succeeded in making people want to harm you, not increased your safety. The drivers who aren’t paying attention will not be more likely to see you if you are just a blinding glow of light.

Re: Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright

#834

Post by adolph »

toast0 wrote: post #665
xp84 wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another one of those quirks of law that appears to be there to help avoid burdening the legendary smallholding farmer whose teenagers are hardworking farmhands towing around 8 head of cattle in the work truck, but which mostly just enables a bunch of idiots driving around surburbs in gleaming-clean four-door pickups that have never carried anything in the bed but a couple bikes or a little camping gear. I'd be all fo…

> you can bet that no regulation of any kind will ever be enacted to curb the disaster that CAFE rules caused to "car" size. I'm not a big EV person, but afaik EVs don't have efficiency standards and so they don't have to conform to CAFE footprints, so we can get compact vehicles again, hopefully. Up to manufacturers to put them for sale, and people to actually buy them, of course.

> but afaik EVs don't have efficiency standards

This is a huge hole in the regulatory regime. It doesn't make sense to be as wasteful with electrons as we are with hydrocarbons. Sure the electron can be generated cleanly or with higher efficiency, but that doesn't negate the pursuit of encouraging increased utility.

Re: Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright

#835

Post by crazygringo »

Y_Y wrote: post #830
crazygringo wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the flashing on bicycles is intentional, precisely to make sure you are aware of them, since they're so much smaller and vulnerable, and the light itself is so much smaller than the rear light on a vehicle. It's not just on rentals, it's a standard feature of bicycle rear lights that is there for safety.

I dunno man, I'm a cyclist, and I live in a big city full of cyclists. I've also used and seen a lot of bike lights in my time. Flashing is often an option, but the default is usually "always on". Also flashing is really fucking annoying, and I my own experience is that it does notale cyclista more visible or safe. I don't use flashing lights myself, even though I can't see the rear one and eould probably rather be a…

It seems like it depends a lot on the city/country.

To be clear, I'm talking about rear lights only. The front light is white and always-on so you can see the ground. Plus you can see what's in front of you, so you avoid things, people don't need to avoid you as much.

It's the rear red light that flashes. You yourself don't see the flashing, but it increases visibility so people don't run into you, when you can't see them behind you.

When I'm behind a cyclist with a flashing red rear light, it doesn't bother me. It feels safe. It probably encourages me to keep a little extra distance from them, which is a good thing.

Re: Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright

#836

Post by crazygringo »

exmadscientist wrote: post #704
crazygringo wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating. I just looked up a bit of research on it, and it seems there are two contradicting phenomena at play. Flashing helps in seeing cyclists further away and helps with visibility generally -- but it also makes it harder to estimate speed and distance. Apparently, the absolute safest solution is to have two rear lights side-by-side -- one that is always on and one that is always flashing. It doesn't seem like…

Flashing on-off and always on aren't the only options. I wish more designers went with flashing bright-dim, because it solves a lot of problems. I once worked on a device where we were required to blink the Important Safety Light™ on-off. I often glanced at this light out of the corner of my eye, and saw that it was off, so we were Safe™. We were not Safe™: it was just in the off phase of its blink. I am very glad I…

Having a third brightness state feels confusing.

If a safety indicator needs to be visible at a glance, why did it blink at all?

Blinking only works for things that are in your vision and need to be the primary focus.

It seems like blinking to begin with is terrible design for something like this, or else having it be in the corner of your eye is the terrible design decision.

Re: Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright

#837

Post by mmmlinux »

LoganDark wrote: post #346
Wistar wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lately, I see a lot of drivers who turn on their brights and just leave them on and this includes cars with the older halogen and even incandescents. This is a change in behavior. As for LEDs, to me, the Tesla Model 3 headlights are the worst offender, but not all of them, just the majority. I can look down a column of oncoming cars and pick out the Model 3s from a few blocks distance. I suspect that the Model 3 head…

I usually drive with only the DRLs even at night. My vision is good enough that there's no reason to blind other drivers. I only use the beams at all when there's bad weather that fucks with visibility, or when the road has no retroreflectors. Also ever since a collision repair the headlight beams have been misaligned and that's extremely distracting/infuriating so I hate using them anyway.

Sounds like you had a bad repair then. take it back and get it fixed properly.

Re: Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright

#838

Post by Espressosaurus »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #792
duskdozer wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I flash a car, it means they're blinding me. I don't care if it's their high beams or not. It doesn't matter.

No one is truly blinding you. Even old incandescent headlights can be unpleasant. Some people are more sensitive to it than others and things like a car coming over a slight hill or bend in the adverse direction can change the alignment of the lights in such a way that they appear much brighter. The point I was trying to make is that reducing the brightness isn't a simple trade off. How many accidents are caused by p…

That's still ignoring the impact on bicyclists, pedestrians, and cars it can't detect because it's not a spherical cow on a uniform plane.

Look at the output of a car from 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and 30 years ago compared to today.

Each is progressively dimmer with their low beams. Modern low beams are brighter than the high-beams of yesteryear!

Re: Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright

#839

Post by Zak »

elric wrote: post #781
Zak wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious solution is to carry a 10000 lumen[0] flashlight and use it to trigger the auto-dim[1]. [0] Most flashlights that advertise numbers like this are lying, but a few aren't [1] This does present a risk of impairing the driver's vision

I've considered mounting such a beast on my handlebars, just so I reciprocate cyclists who blind me. But I'm guessing such a thing wouldn't be entirely legal.

Some countries have very specific standards for bike lights; others have none. Most jurisdictions have a crime like "reckless endangerment" though, and intentionally shining bright lights into a cyclist's eyes could qualify.

Re: Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright

#840

Post by jjtheblunt »

johnwalkr wrote: post #645
jjtheblunt wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a third thing is some people drive with brights on all the time, particularly in snow-bird seasonal communities, I've noticed. when the seasonal people, many geriatric, are in town, the vehicles driving day and night with bright lights activated is noticable.

Might be some mistaken confirmation bias there. Canadian registered vehicles are required to have "daytime running lights" while American cars are not. You might be seeing low beams vs no beams, as opposed to high beams vs low beams.

We've got daytime running lights for years here south of Canada, almost everyone has them enabled by default, but they seem not mandated still.

Anyway, occasionally F150 / Silverado lights are mis-aimed, so low beams seem bright, but more commonly (here) German and American cars with distinct fixtures for brights vs low beans are driving in daylight with both sets activated. Not sure why, but it's not unusual.

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