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Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#831

Post by tomp »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #496
timschmidt wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pension is a Ponzi scheme. Explained in terms of economic theory, if everybody works and saves in time period 1, and retires and receives pension in time period 2, then... their pension is worthless, because there's infinite inflation, because no more goods and services get produced. You've created an impossible situation which will never exist and then offered it as an example of why taking care of the elderly, so…

I think what they missed is that people typically work for much longer than they are retired. If the periods were of equal length, I think the Ponzi scheme thing would be true. As is its sort of a modified fractionated ponzi.

Do they?

0-25 education, 25-67 work, 67-82 pension, it's almost equivalent (42 working, 40 not working)

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#832

Post by acatton »

formerly_proven wrote: post #811
TFYS wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax wealth. I know that's a very hard thing to do due to the mobility and political power of capital, but we need international co-operation and just do it. That's where all the money is and where it's going at an accelerating rate.

The way this tends to turn out is that the type of assets accessible to younger/working people is taxed and the type of assets held by older/non-working people is not. E.g. look at Ireland. Ireland has a de-facto wealth tax ("deemed disposal" - taxing the unrealized gains) on ETFs starting at the first euro, which makes investing basically pointless. Meanwhile it also has one of the lower tax levels on property in th…

Yes, it needs to be done in a fair manner. France used to have a tax (Impôt de Solidarité sur la Fortune) which was anybody with more than X millions of assets had to pay 75% of income tax. (I believe it was 10 millions, but I could be wrong) It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't a bad idea. IIRC it was slashed by Sarkozy right before the 2008 crisis as part of his campaign promises, and he just kept going with his tax cuts on the wealthy after 2008.

Another thing could be multipliers on property tax. For example, you would pay 0.75× of the property tax on your primary residence, 1.5× the property tax of your secondary residence, and start going exponentially on third, fourth, ... residence. Of course, there would be loopholes (like owning properties through companies), and these loopholes would need to be closed.

You could also tax buy-backs and dividends. (If a company buy their own shares, they have to pay a 50% tax on it)

There are a lot of possible implementations that could add up to each other. It's a fallacy to just point at the bad ones and say "look it doesn't work!"

The main issue is that there has been a transfer of global share income from labour to capital in the last 50 years. However we expect to pay for pensions just by taxing labour. It doesn't matter if there are less young people, because (as shown by GDP growth) they are producing more overall, but misinformed politicians use this argument because they don't understand that these folks didn't profit from the increase in productivity. We need to fairly take a share from this productivity increase and distribute it as pensions. The goal is to pay for what we promised, while relieving burden on young people.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#833

Post by zamadatix »

sentimentscan wrote: post #817
rayiner wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of the deal with progress should be that we all start working less. If not is the progress all that attractive? But we don't want to work less, we want more stuff.

My friends and I would love to have 4/5 or 3/5 of working days with 4/5 or 3/5 of salary, but sadly I don't know any companies that offer that. I understand that it may be hard with meeting culture, but we can make 1 or 2 days with no meetings. I don't want to go back to the stress and uncertainty of freelancing; I want a predictable, safe income with simply scaled-back hours/pay. My salary (and my friends') in IT is…

I don't think time worked linearly correlates with profitability, especially when talking about long timeframes. E.g. working 120 hours per week for a year is extremely unlikely to result in 3x the productivity as 40 hours a week. Same with working 3/5ths as much, it's unlikely to linearly scale down to 3/5ths the value (not that "it can't ever", just not as a typical expectation).

That aside, plenty of places offer a 4x10, or are fine with it when asked, and I think that's a more productive way to put in 40 hours each week while also being more convenient for yourself (before even getting into wanting to lower total hours).

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#835

Post by ryan93 »

n_ary wrote: post #347
niemandhier wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only give you the rundown for Germany, but I guess it’s similar in Denmark: Basically the state spends to much money on humans in general. A young qualified immigrant might have a less negative impact than a slightly older German person, but both of them will be money sinks in the long run. Statistically immigrants in Germany are less qualified than the general population, so they’ll have an even more negative…

> Statistically immigrants in Germany are less qualified than the general population, so they’ll have an even more negative impact. I need to see some data backing this. Also regardless of stats, many war refugees(the net negatives as told by media) are actually highly qualified but the asylum process and qualification recognition process is eternal. On top of the trauma and uncertainty, they also need to learn a new…

"refugees" from syria or iraq or wherever would quickly out qualify danes???

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#838

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #828
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The divide is a feature, not a bug. There’s a reason the US is called an experiment, with all the trials, tribulations, failures and successes that come with that. “We do things not because they are easy, but because they are hard.”

Portraying the largest conquest and ethnic cleansing of the Americas as a deliberate experiment to figure out multiculturalism leaves a bitter taste, I'm not gonna lie. And if you gave me a choice between a world divided in small Denmarks or between the contemporary re-armament of the west due to the election of a populist buffoon combined with decades of mismanagement of a unipolar world, I wouldn't think twice.

Every culture has sins and skeletons. That’s not to absolve them but if we’re comparing contemporary national cultures, their stability and demographic makeup, it’s obviously a spectrum of stability, progress, etc.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#839

Post by zilian »

jltsiren wrote: post #583
amag wrote: post #409

This is truly sad. As a Swede I fear my country may follow suite. The retirement age in Sweden used to be 65 and now it's 67. Looking at older people around me, most lead a much less active life after 75. So, if we were lucky we used to have some 10 good years of doing whatever we wanted before old age and age-related diseases start affecting us so much we become limited to a much smaller world. But now we have maybe…

There is nothing sad about this. Mandatory pensions are not a vacation sponsored by the government but a way to provide for those who can't provide for themselves. If you were born in the 70s, you should have known for most of your adult life that your normal retirement age is likely going to be around 70. The demographic situation is not new, the solutions have been discussed extensively since at least the 90s, and…

This is such a sad comment. Indeed, the demographic situation was known and predictable in the 80's, and for instance in France we did nothing to plan around it.

So now the young generation is expected to pay longer and longer for retirees, who have a higher median revenue and a higher standard of life than the active workforce (per all studies). There is absolutely no way I'm working until 70 to finance errors from the past without a contribution from our current retirees' wealth. There is anyway no foreseeable future with work for everyone until 70 with our current technological progress unless you want to slave everyone in bullshit jobs. All of this is madness.

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