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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

bbc.com

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#831

Post by ttoinou »

jmward01 wrote: post #506

US policy is now one of forcing the world into a zero sum game and it is a shame because the world isn't zero sum. This means the world will loose the gains from friendship and cooperation that increase the overall outcome for everyone. It is like living in a city where crime is expected so everyone puts up iron bars on their windows and the parks are all locked-down nightmares. When there is trust and cooperation yo…

Some games are indeed zero sum, some are positive and some are negative.

You could also see that in a positive light : Europeans might get a better armies / defence in 10 years compared to if the USA continued its past behavior without Trump

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#833

Post by bashback »

horns4lyfe wrote: post #752

Astounding how quickly all the liberals here were convinced to become neocons nearly overnight out of spite over Trump. All this talk about “soft power”, one user below even bemoaned the end of the “US hegemony”. Unreal

Do you feel better about yourself now?

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#834

Post by bashback »

scop wrote: post #228

Well, here come the downvotes, but for anybody who thinks that it is completely believable that Trump is a Russian stooge or is “on Russias side” let me offer this up: - We want peace. Full stop. No more dead men, women, and children. THAT IS THE GOAL. CONTEXT: - Trump armed Ukraine to the teeth in first term, providing lethal aid which previous presidents did not do. He wanted to deter Putin while not also escalatin…

[dead]

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#835

Post by surume »

Ukraine just lost the war. Europe has no weapons to give them. They will now have no money from the USA. Zelensky was stupid and he bit the hand that fed him. Now he must live in shame and watch his country be conquered by Russia. I think Putin will change the name of Ukraine after he wins. What do you think he will call that land?

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#836

Post by safety1st »

jmward01 wrote: post #506

US policy is now one of forcing the world into a zero sum game and it is a shame because the world isn't zero sum. This means the world will loose the gains from friendship and cooperation that increase the overall outcome for everyone. It is like living in a city where crime is expected so everyone puts up iron bars on their windows and the parks are all locked-down nightmares. When there is trust and cooperation yo…

Here is a more nuanced take imho:

* After decades of reckless spending and lax economic management the US is going broke in a number of ways. In particular dealing with the national debt before and after Covid are very different beasts

* Coupled with similar problems in other countries and gradual global demographic decline, the global future looks like a zero sum game

* In its relations with other states, America has tended to leave a lot of money on the table since the Cold War era, in order to curry political favor, which it can no longer afford to do

* Republicans speak and campaign more openly about this than Democrats even though they both agree on the fundamental ideas I just outlined

* This is why Republicans are currently ascendant with the electorate and Democrats are seeing some of their worst numbers ever in favorability polls

* It is eminently reasonable to not prefer zero sum geopolitical games because they tend to cause poverty and war, but we've boxed ourselves into this future through decades of poor decisions

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#837

Post by entropyneur »

rmk wrote: post #763

The uncomfortable truth Donald Trump is finally articulating forcefully is that Europe built its welfare state under the US security umbrella, but then started getting cocky with antitrust actions, restricting American companies' access to their markets etc, while simultaneously doing next to nothing to secure their own neighborhood by investing in defense (France being a notable exception). Even if we charitably ass…

I agree with your characterization of Europe's actions. However, belittling Ukraine and siding with the aggressor to make a point with europeans is not "articulating forcefully". It's bullying.
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