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Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

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Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#831

Post by azinman2 »

cogman10 wrote: post #351
nostromo wrote: post #299

I think the attacks on some of these black and gray markets has increased violent crime in the real world. I wish the federal government would stop shutting them down and instead use them as tools to build cases against people breaking the law. For example, for a while most prostitution and sex work seemed to be online, on places like Craigslist right next to ads for used furniture and jobs. And it seemed to be reall…

I wish instead of criminalizing addiction we'd fund harm reduction centers and rehabilitation services. I would much rather the police be focused on stopping violent crime rather than these victimless crimes. Legitimizing drugs/prostitution makes is easier to regulate and ultimately make safer. Shoving this stuff into a black/gray market is what ultimately creates violent crime.

Portland tried this. It was a resounding failure.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#832

Post by gigatexal »

ozim wrote: post #641
gigatexal wrote: post #632

What’s the overall take of HN here? Was the government overstepping? Is everyone supporting this undoing of his sentence? Are we generally pro free drug trade? Or are we more anti-FBI?

I don’t support the undoing. Government wasn’t overstepping, facilitating bad stuff on such scale has to be taken down with big consequences. There is no „I was just running a site and people used it for bad stuff” he had all intentions and he profited from it.

I agree. The lengthy sentence likely was such that it stood as a deterrence to other upstarts / would-be drug marketplace kingpins.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#833

Post by motorest »

hedora wrote: post #813
azinman2 wrote: post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to comment on the murder part as that’s well discussed here. I would take issue with assuming that it was net positive with ratings. Given the anonymous nature handling bots spamming fake reviews would be even harder to catch here, and you ultimately don’t know who ended up addicted/hooked/DUI’s etc from the easy availability this provided. I’m not sure the total effects could ever be qualified, but it’s no…

Historically, many anti-drug / anti-cartel leaders are actually members of a rival cartel, and want to use law enforcement to fight their wars for them. The Mexican government has a long history of this. The LAPD’s (well documented for over 50 years) do the same thing. Trump is a convicted felon with lots of ties to organized crime. Nothing about him pardoning members of some criminal organizations but not others is…

> Historically, many anti-drug / anti-cartel leaders are actually members of a rival cartel, and want to use law enforcement to fight their wars for them.

For reference, Rudy Giuliani was lauded as the anti-organized mayor that brought down the Italian mob in New York, but ultimately was flagged as actually being an upper echelon of Russian organized crime who worked to establish it by eliminating competiton.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#834

Post by WaitWaitWha »

efficax wrote: post #795
constantcrying wrote: post #722

Here is what the discussion looked like almost a decade ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9626985 Very striking to see how the sentiment has drastically shifted, while the facts of the case did not. There is a really cultural shift visible in how this issue is seen on here.

life in prison was too harsh, but a full pardon is too lenient.

Just to be clear, a pardon does not expunge or erase one's criminal record.

> life in prison was too harsh, but a full pardon is too lenient.

I think you should compare it as: life in prison was too harsh, but 10 years is too lenient.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#835

Post by knodi123 »

mrandish wrote: post #181

This is wonderful. I've never argued that Ross shouldn't have served time but it's always been clear his prosecution and sentencing were excessive and unjust. The prosecutors asked for a 20 year sentence, which seemed disproportionate given the sentencing guidelines for a first-time offender and the non-violent charges he was convicted of. But the judge sentenced Ross to TWO life sentences plus 40 years - without the…

> sentencing guidelines for a first-time offender

First time offender?!?!? Applying that term to a guy who spent years traveling around the world under multiple fake IDs while using state-level security on his hardware and racking up law violations every single day seems like an absurd stretch.

I mean, come on. By that logic, Al Capone was a first time offender when the feds finally nailed him for the first time. Pablo Escobar was a first time offender when he finally got nabbed. Good lord.

"First time offense" applies to your _first offense_. Not relevant when you've committed thousands of offenses over years while living on the run.

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#836

Post by rmah »

azinman2 wrote: post #800
_yb2s wrote: post #798

I feel torn about this because it seems there was good evidence for attempted murder- and I cannot understand why they never tried him for that (seemingly larger) crime. However, for the crime he was actually found guilty of, the sentence was unfair and unreasonable. It seems they unethically sentenced him for crimes he was not even ever charged with. I'd also argue he almost certainly saved a huge number of lives wi…

Not going to comment on the murder part as that’s well discussed here. I would take issue with assuming that it was net positive with ratings. Given the anonymous nature handling bots spamming fake reviews would be even harder to catch here, and you ultimately don’t know who ended up addicted/hooked/DUI’s etc from the easy availability this provided. I’m not sure the total effects could ever be qualified, but it’s no…

Well, now you probably understand that Trump is not really anti-drug/anti-cartel. Nor do I think he's pro-drug/pro-cartel. I think he doesn't actually care except in how those issues affect his political career and public profile. Many of Trump's more ... let's call them "random" seeming statements and actions make much more sense if you look at them through the lens of "he doesn't actually care one way or the other".

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#838

Post by smeeger »

_yb2s wrote: post #798

I feel torn about this because it seems there was good evidence for attempted murder- and I cannot understand why they never tried him for that (seemingly larger) crime. However, for the crime he was actually found guilty of, the sentence was unfair and unreasonable. It seems they unethically sentenced him for crimes he was not even ever charged with. I'd also argue he almost certainly saved a huge number of lives wi…

the benefit wasnt really unique to silk road or ross. it was just a very convoluted, roundabout demonstration of how safe drug use can be when its done in the right environment. legalization would be even safer…

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#839

Post by Slava_Propanei »

rmah wrote: post #836
azinman2 wrote: post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to comment on the murder part as that’s well discussed here. I would take issue with assuming that it was net positive with ratings. Given the anonymous nature handling bots spamming fake reviews would be even harder to catch here, and you ultimately don’t know who ended up addicted/hooked/DUI’s etc from the easy availability this provided. I’m not sure the total effects could ever be qualified, but it’s no…

Well, now you probably understand that Trump is not really anti-drug/anti-cartel. Nor do I think he's pro-drug/pro-cartel. I think he doesn't actually care except in how those issues affect his political career and public profile. Many of Trump's more ... let's call them "random" seeming statements and actions make much more sense if you look at them through the lens of "he doesn't actually care one way or the other"…

[dead]

Re: Ross Ulbricht granted a full pardon

#840

Post by cratermoon »

plsbenice34 wrote: post #436
cratermoon wrote: post #325

Just a reminder: the condition for accepting a pardon is acknowledging that you did commit the crime in question and accept the court's finding of guilt. In contrast: Biden didn't pardon Leonard Peltier, the president commuted his sentence. Peltier maintains his innocence.

Do you have a source for that condition? How does that work for Biden pardoning Fauci for crimes that havent been revealed yet?

classic whataboutism.
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