Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#831

Post by MBCook » Sun, Nov 17, 2024, 4:50 AM UTC

conductr wrote: post #785

MBCook wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What advantage do they offer in 2024? Live news and sports is huge for a ton of people. You have access to all the shows from the major networks. You don’t need to subscribe to Peacock and Paramount and Hulu and the TBS app and Discovery+ and… Better yet, they’re all combined in one interface as opposed to all trying to be the only thing that you use. Also, especially if you grew up with it, there is absolutely a s…

This. I’m exactly in this YouTube tv camp and most the time just miss the simplicity of the old cable. Having to find things to watch is for me and awful experience. Then when I do want to watch something trying to figure out which app it’s actually on is awful. I think we subscribed to a dozen different things, it’s so damn fragmented. Even in early days if Netflix, I was a holdout that kept going to blockbuster bec…

Well I haven’t gone back to linear TV, I totally get it.

I don’t subscribe to anything that doesn’t work with my Apple TV. Netflix for example won’t integrate with it the way Hulu does. So whatever show I’m watching on Netflix? Wouldn’t show up in my show list on my Apple TV. I forget it exists.

So I don’t subscribe to it. Or anything else like that. You are NOT more important than me, service I pay for.

The only two exceptions are YouTube (which obviously works differently) and Plex for the few things that I already already owned on DVD or can’t get on any service.

It works well enough for me. But I still find myself missing a linear TV now and then.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#832

Post by fragmede » Sun, Nov 17, 2024, 4:51 AM UTC

david-gpu wrote: post #786

shermantanktop wrote: post #698

Every time a big company screws up, there are two highly informed sets of people who are guaranteed to be lurking, but rarely post, in a thread like this: 1) those directly involved with the incident, or employees of the same company. They have too much to lose by circumventing the PR machine. 2) people at similar companies who operate similar systems with similar scale and risks. Those people know how hard this is a…

Completely agreed. There are also former employees who have very educated opinions about what is likely going on, but between NDAs and whatnot there is only so much they are willing to say. It is frustrating for those in the know, but there are lines they can't or won't cross. Whenever an HN thread covers subjects where I have direct professional experience I have to bite my tongue while people who have no clue can b…

Some people can just let others be wrong and just stay silent, but some people can't help themselves. So if you say something really wrong, like this was caused by Netflix moving to Azure, they should have stayed on AWS! someone will come along to correct you. If you're looking for the right answer, post the wrong one, alongside some provoking statement (Windows is better than Linux because this works there), and you'll get the right answer faster than if you'd asked your question directly.

https://xkcd.com/386/

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#833

Post by fragmede » Sun, Nov 17, 2024, 4:57 AM UTC

grogenaut wrote: post #703

shermantanktop wrote: post #698

Every time a big company screws up, there are two highly informed sets of people who are guaranteed to be lurking, but rarely post, in a thread like this: 1) those directly involved with the incident, or employees of the same company. They have too much to lose by circumventing the PR machine. 2) people at similar companies who operate similar systems with similar scale and risks. Those people know how hard this is a…

you are so right about that. tho I'm sure that many of the netflix folks are still doing their after action analysis in prep for Dec 25 NFL. now take this realization and apply it to any news article or forum post you read and think about how uninformed they actually are.

If NFL decides to keep Netflix for that, that is. The bandwidth for that fight was rookie numbers, and after that fiasco, why would the NFL not break their contract and choose someone with a proven track record doing bigger live events, like the World Cup?

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#834

Post by onetokeoverthe » Sun, Nov 17, 2024, 4:58 AM UTC

off topic but.

i thought tyson was in eldercare.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#835

Post by nemothekid » Sun, Nov 17, 2024, 4:59 AM UTC

eviks wrote: post #801

nemothekid wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Torrents are awful for live events. 1. Everyone only cares about the most recent "block". By the time a "user" has fully downloaded a block from Netflix's seedbox, the block is stale, so why would any other user choose to download from a peer rather from netflix directly? 2. If all the users would prefer to download from netflix directly rather than a p2p user, then you already have a somewhat centralized solution, a…

1. Because Netflix is at capacity? Or because the peer is closer and faster than the original?

If Netflix is at capacity and you have to wait for a peer, then you have simply reinvented the buffering problem. In other words

1. I exclusively download from a peer and my stream is measurably behind

2. I switch to a peer when Netflix is at capacity and then I have to wait for the peer to download from Netflix, and then for me to download from the peer. This will cause the same buffering issue that Netflix is currently being lambasted for.

This solution doesn’t solve the problem Netflix has

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#836

Post by nemothekid » Sun, Nov 17, 2024, 5:01 AM UTC

alex-mohr wrote: post #759

nemothekid wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Torrents are awful for live events. 1. Everyone only cares about the most recent "block". By the time a "user" has fully downloaded a block from Netflix's seedbox, the block is stale, so why would any other user choose to download from a peer rather from netflix directly? 2. If all the users would prefer to download from netflix directly rather than a p2p user, then you already have a somewhat centralized solution, a…

If Netflix were working correctly and could handle the load, you'd absolutely be correct. But it does seem the capacity of a hybrid system of Netflix servers plus P2P would be strictly greater than either alone? It's not an XOR. And note that in this case of "live" streaming, it still has a few seconds of buffer, which gives a bandwidth-delay product of a few MB. That's plenty to have non-stale blocks and do torrent-…

If switching to a peer causes increased buffering (which it will, because you still have to wait for the peer to download from Netflix) then you will still have the original problem Netflix is suffering from.

If the solution to users complaining about buffering is to build a system with more inherent buffering then you are back at square one.

I think it’s might be helpful to look at netlfix’s current system as already a distributed video delivery system in which they control the best seeds. Adding more seeds may help, but if Netflix is underprovisioned from the start you will have users who cannot access the streams

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#837

Post by cryptica » Sun, Nov 17, 2024, 5:02 AM UTC

I don't understand why the media is pushing this a Jake Paul vs Mike Tyson stuff so hard and why people care about it. Boxing is crude entertainment for low intelligence people.

I'm tired of all this junk entertainment which only serves to give people second-hand emotions that they can't feel for themselves in real life. It's like, some people can't get sex so they watch porn. People can't fight so they watch boxing. People can't win in real life so they play video games or watch superhero movies.

Many people these days have to live vicariously through random people/entities; watch others live the life they wished they had and then they idolize these people who get to have everything... As if these people were an intimate projection of themselves... When, in fact, they couldn't be more different. It's like rooting for your opponent and thinking you're on the same team; when, in fact, they don't even know that you exist and they couldn't be more different from you.

You're no Marvel superhero no matter how many comic books you own. The heroes you follow have nothing to do with you. Choose different heroes who are more like you. Or better; do something about your life and give yourself a reason to idolize yourself.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#838

Post by pfraze » Sun, Nov 17, 2024, 5:09 AM UTC

croes wrote: post #795

shermantanktop wrote: post #698

Every time a big company screws up, there are two highly informed sets of people who are guaranteed to be lurking, but rarely post, in a thread like this: 1) those directly involved with the incident, or employees of the same company. They have too much to lose by circumventing the PR machine. 2) people at similar companies who operate similar systems with similar scale and risks. Those people know how hard this is a…

You are basically saying, everybody who criticizes Netflix now has no clue. That’s a bold claim given that people with inside knowledge could post here without disclosing they are insiders. Is that some kind of No True Scotsman?

At the scale that Netflix just dealt with? Yeah I honestly think this is a case where less than 5000 people in the world are really qualified to comment.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#839

Post by eviks » Sun, Nov 17, 2024, 5:11 AM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #835

eviks wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Because Netflix is at capacity? Or because the peer is closer and faster than the original?

If Netflix is at capacity and you have to wait for a peer, then you have simply reinvented the buffering problem. In other words 1. I exclusively download from a peer and my stream is measurably behind 2. I switch to a peer when Netflix is at capacity and then I have to wait for the peer to download from Netflix, and then for me to download from the peer. This will cause the same buffering issue that Netflix is curre…

"Buffering problem" can have very different QOL manifestations, so :

1. You still get a better viewing experience without interruptions. Besides, your "measurably behind" can be an imperceptible fraction of a second?

2. Similar thing - shorter queues - the switch can happen faster due to the extra capacity

So yes, it does solve the practical problem, though not the theoretical one

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#840

Post by phil21 » Sun, Nov 17, 2024, 5:12 AM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #833

grogenaut wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are so right about that. tho I'm sure that many of the netflix folks are still doing their after action analysis in prep for Dec 25 NFL. now take this realization and apply it to any news article or forum post you read and think about how uninformed they actually are.

If NFL decides to keep Netflix for that, that is. The bandwidth for that fight was rookie numbers, and after that fiasco, why would the NFL not break their contract and choose someone with a proven track record doing bigger live events, like the World Cup?

Because Netflix pays them either way, I would imagine. Breaking a contract on a sure thing to the tune of tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars for a maybe is a large business risk.

Reputational damage is going to be far more Netflix than the NFL if they totally club it.

That and this fight is going to likely be an order of magnitude more viewers than the Christmas NFL games if the media estimates on viewership were remotely accurate. You’re talking Super Bowl type numbers vs a regular season NFL game. The problems start happening at the margin of capacity most of the time.