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Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

theguardian.com

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Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#831

Post by inglor_cz »

dijit wrote: post #57
chucke1992 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe there are any western nations that want non-locally-backdoored messaging of any sort But that's what exactly they want no? EU is literally implementing a regulation that will allow to "circumvent end-to-end encryption to address child sexual abuse material". I believe it failed to pass recently, but they will try again - and nothing stops countries to implement it independently. I think France is th…

A handful of EU MEPs keep pushing backdoored encryption and it keeps getting veto’d. There are two legistive bodies in the EU, one is only allowed to propose law, the other is only allowed to vote on it. Lots of braindead laws get put to a vote, theres no requirement that they get through. I understand that raising the alarm is helpful, but it would be helpful if people took a second to understand how the EU works, t…

Chat Control isn't pushed by a "handful of EU MEPs", but the European Commission.

Notably, it can be agreed upon in the EC using qualified majority, unilateral veto doesn't apply.

The last time they tried (in June), the qualified majority wasn't reached, but the difference was slim.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#832

Post by [deleted] »

hkpack wrote: post #816
fahrenheit154 wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am long done with commenting on this platform, as most of Russian people, who cannot write here (and most of other western internet forums) what they think. I will make an exception in this case, however. 1. "I think it is perfectly fair for governments to take down large channels that are clearly against the law" Telegram obviously acts upon such requests Here in Italy I cannot access the channels of RIA and Sputn…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#833

Post by NotGMan »

jorvi wrote: post #818
hnpolicestate wrote: post #728

It's hard to respond to some of the commentary here. We truly exist mentally on different planets. The West wants Telegram destroyed because the platform permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc). This is in addition to the West not having a backdoor to Telegram and not having it's servers on Western soil. Why do you want you…

I think you are living on a different planet. I am pretty staunchly pro-privacy, but this arrest has little to do with > permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc) It is about drug sales and extremism, that last one being about alt right / anti-vaccine crazies / terrorism, whatever else extremism du jour.

That fact that you think that "alt right, anti-vaccine crazies" are extremist is the best example for not wanting people like you be able to censor anything.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#834

Post by [deleted] »

hnpolicestate wrote: post #728

It's hard to respond to some of the commentary here. We truly exist mentally on different planets. The West wants Telegram destroyed because the platform permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc). This is in addition to the West not having a backdoor to Telegram and not having it's servers on Western soil. Why do you want you…

[deleted]

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#835

Post by defrost »

exceptione wrote: post #821
defrost wrote: post #813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a liberatarian nor am I a US citizen (Australian), however ... IF you let LEO's access group chats THEN you absolutely need civilian accountable honest transparent clear oversight to avoid mission creep. The task isn't as clear cut as "known criminal is part of OC groups", there's a clear Sorities Paradox asking when does an OC group chat become a neighbourhood watch | knitting group chat. If our criminal of…

I would be very concerned if your knitting grandma was an active member of a drugs and arms dealergroup. I am pretty much against surveillance in the form of drag nets, but none of that applies here. Instead, this is exactly how a functional state should work. (And note that no exceptions are made for Pavel because he is rich and well-connected. Contrast that with brittle countries where politicians rely on tech bill…

Australia is part of the five eyes, many Australians with, say, a signals intell background will have seen things that may or may not make your eyes bleed wrt crime and|or state actions.

Yes, functional states should have extremely good oversight .. in reality they "mostly do" but with cracks that allow unwanted behaviours to sneak through and sometimes become normalised.

eg. recent revelations that SASR types are "blooding" new members with unsanctioned kills in war zones. Or regular joe LEO types using surveillance powers to stalk ex's. Or total innocent gets railroaded by tangential "evidence" simply because they chance to tick all the boxes for a needed arrest and the actual perp was overlooked | unseen.

> I would be very concerned if your knitting grandma was an active member of a drugs and arms dealergroup.

And yet an actual sergeant at arms type of an organised biker gang based in Australia used knitting terminology key phrases in just such a group to organise international transfers of "packages".

The person in question was a NZ background stone cold killer with a special forces background.

( Yes, most crims are "dumb" | "lazy" and yet a good few understand covert messaging, not all can be caught with a fake encrypted phone honey net trap )

These are all real concerns and examples of things that have actually happened.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#836

Post by inglor_cz »

kaba0 wrote: post #674
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Free speech is not unrestricted speech, nor freedom from consequences. The market is also not free when it’s uncontrolled, that would just result in blatant manipulation. And hate speech is a serious crime, not sure why you believe otherwise. In many aspects, most EU countries have much freer speech than the US.

Blasphemy against Muhammad is a serious crime in some countries too. Doesn't mean that everyone has to share this opinion.

I personally don't considered hate speech to be worthy of criminalization, much less as a "serious" crime.

What I consider to be serious crime is censorship, though.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#837

Post by schleck8 »

lisnake wrote: post #779
hnpolicestate wrote: post #728

It's hard to respond to some of the commentary here. We truly exist mentally on different planets. The West wants Telegram destroyed because the platform permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc). This is in addition to the West not having a backdoor to Telegram and not having it's servers on Western soil. Why do you want you…

Telegram's data centers are located in USA, Netherlands and Singapore

Hey, get away with your facts and logic. It distracts from OP's agenda.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#838

Post by schleck8 »

ilumanty wrote: post #829
jorvi wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are living on a different planet. I am pretty staunchly pro-privacy, but this arrest has little to do with > permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc) It is about drug sales and extremism, that last one being about alt right / anti-vaccine crazies / terrorism, whatever else extremism du jour.

If our democracy is as robust as our leaders advertise it, it should easily cope with extremism, anti-vaxxers and system opponents.

This is about identity theft like selling credit card details, meth and child porn (telegram deletes 60 thousand such groups. Per month. It's a shitpile that attracts flies, evidently)

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#839

Post by sofixa »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #777
sofixa wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the people I know use Telegram to buy drugs I'm in France. I use Telegram extensively for chatting with friends (1:1 or group chats) because its UX was vastly better than any of the alternatives when we started a few years ago (stuff like polls to decide when to meet, location sharing to find one another in a crowded place), custom bots, being able to edit messages to fix typos, etc. Nowadays WhatsApp does…

I also know people buying drugs on WhatsApp but you need to get the contact by another mean. You can’t find it inside WhatsApp. I know absolutely no one using Telegram as a chat app however. Pretty much everyone uses WhatsApp for everything here.

> I know absolutely no one using Telegram as a chat app however. Pretty much everyone uses WhatsApp for everything here.

Hi, pleased to meet you. I have around 15 people I only chat with via Telegram just in France.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#840

Post by sva_ »

andreygrehov wrote: post #594
sva_ wrote: post #510

It's all just speculation here. Maybe the French gov knows some stuff we don't. I always found that guy's story of living 'in exile' from Russia a bit suspect. And now Russian government officials are calling for his release. Need more information to make any kind of judgement. What I'm pretty sure of now is that this probably has nothing to do with encryption.

Or maybe the people in French gov are not competent enough. They are the same people as all of us. There is zero special things about them. They just don’t like his “I’m not cooperating with governments” position.

I think the French secret service who apprehended him probably does know more than the average person.
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