Open source AI is the path forward • Hacker News Board

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#831

Post by ssahoo » Wed, Jul 24, 2024, 2:22 PM UTC

Additional Commercial Terms. If, on the Llama 3.1 version release date, the monthly active users of the products or services made available by or for Licensee, or Licensee’s affiliates, is greater than 700 million monthly active users in the preceding calendar month, you must request a license from Meta, which Meta may grant to you in its sole discretion, and you are not authorized to exercise any of the rights under this Agreement unless or until Meta otherwise expressly grants you such rights.

Which open-source has such restrictions and clause?

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#832

Post by maxdo » Wed, Jul 24, 2024, 2:23 PM UTC

I'm really unsure if it's a good idea given the current geopolitics.

Open-Source Code in the past was fantastic because the West had a monopoly on CPUs and computers. Sharing and contributing was amazing while ensured that tyrants couldn't use this tech to harm people simply because they don't have a hardware to run.

But now, things are different. China is advancing in chip technology, and Russia is using open-source AI to harm people on the scale today, with auto-targeting drones being just the start. Red sea conflict etc.

And somehow, Zuckerberg keeps finding ways to mess up people's lives, despite having the best intentions.

Right now you can build a semi-autonomous drone with AI to kill people for ~$500-700. The western world will still use safe and secure commercial models. While new axis of evil will use models based on Meta or any other open source to do whatever harm they can imagine with not a hint of control.

This particular model. Fine-tune it to develop a nuclear bomb using all possible research that level of government can get on the scale. Killing drone swarms etc. Once the knowledge got public these models can be a base model to get expert-level knowledge to anyone who wants it, uncensored. Especially if you are government that wants to destroy a peaceful order for whatever reason.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#833

Post by lostmsu » Wed, Jul 24, 2024, 2:23 PM UTC

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #799

lostmsu wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None unless you are prepared to spend 5+ years. Macs just don't have flops.

Really? You can't even fine-tune a quantized 8B model on such a machine? That's a bummer.

You can't really fine-tune quantized models as-is. Gradients require floating-point calculations at descent precision.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#834

Post by rmbyrro » Wed, Jul 24, 2024, 2:24 PM UTC

ssahoo wrote: post #831

Additional Commercial Terms. If, on the Llama 3.1 version release date, the monthly active users of the products or services made available by or for Licensee, or Licensee’s affiliates, is greater than 700 million monthly active users in the preceding calendar month, you must request a license from Meta, which Meta may grant to you in its sole discretion, and you are not authorized to exercise any of the rights under…

Which open source costs dedicated usage of 16 thousand H100 over several months?

C'mon folks, they're opening up for free to 99.99% of potential users what cost hundreds of millions of dollars, if not in the ballpark of a billion.

Let's appreciate that, instead of focusing on semantics for a while.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#835

Post by camgunz » Wed, Jul 24, 2024, 2:26 PM UTC

echoangle wrote: post #533

derefr wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare/contrast: DOOM-the-engine is open source ( https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM ), even though DOOM-the-asset-and-scenario-data is not. While you need a copy of DOOM-the-asset-and-scenario-data to "use DOOM to run DOOM", you are free to build other games using DOOM-the-engine.

I think no one would claim that “Doom” is open source though, if that’s the situation.

That's what op is saying, the engine is GPLv2, but the assets are copyrighted. There's Freedoom though and it's pretty good [0].

[0]: https://freedoom.github.io/

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#836

Post by blharr » Wed, Jul 24, 2024, 2:27 PM UTC

twelvechairs wrote: post #591

causal wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Open weights" is a more appropriate term but I'll point out that these weights are also largely inscrutable to the people with the code that trained it. And for licensing reasons, the datasets may not be possible to share. There is still a lot of modifying you can do with a set of weights, and they make great foundations for new stuff, but yeah we may never see a competitive model that's 100% buildable at home. Edit…

Open training data would be great too. If you have open data and open source code you can reproduce the weights

Not easily for these large scale models, but theoretically maybe

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#837

Post by rmbyrro » Wed, Jul 24, 2024, 2:32 PM UTC

maxdo wrote: post #832

I'm really unsure if it's a good idea given the current geopolitics. Open-Source Code in the past was fantastic because the West had a monopoly on CPUs and computers. Sharing and contributing was amazing while ensured that tyrants couldn't use this tech to harm people simply because they don't have a hardware to run. But now, things are different. China is advancing in chip technology, and Russia is using open-source…

You think Russia and China wouldn't be able to steal any closed model for a couple million dollars?

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#838

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 24, 2024, 2:34 PM UTC

llm_trw wrote: post #763

TeMPOraL wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And LLMs don't ship with a Python distribution. Linux sources :: dataset that goes into training Linux sources' build confs and scripts :: training code + hyperparameters GCC :: Python + PyTorch or whatever they use in training Compiled Linux kernel binary :: model weights

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true. LLMs are not software any more than photographs are.

[deleted]

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#839

Post by that_guy_iain » Wed, Jul 24, 2024, 2:35 PM UTC

rmbyrro wrote: post #837

maxdo wrote: post #832

I'm really unsure if it's a good idea given the current geopolitics. Open-Source Code in the past was fantastic because the West had a monopoly on CPUs and computers. Sharing and contributing was amazing while ensured that tyrants couldn't use this tech to harm people simply because they don't have a hardware to run. But now, things are different. China is advancing in chip technology, and Russia is using open-source…

You think Russia and China wouldn't be able to steal any closed model for a couple million dollars?

Wouldn’t even need to pay to steal it. FAANG have been shown to be hacked by state actors. China has some of the best hackers in the world.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#840

Post by arrosenberg » Wed, Jul 24, 2024, 2:36 PM UTC

rmbyrro wrote: post #834

ssahoo wrote: post #831

Additional Commercial Terms. If, on the Llama 3.1 version release date, the monthly active users of the products or services made available by or for Licensee, or Licensee’s affiliates, is greater than 700 million monthly active users in the preceding calendar month, you must request a license from Meta, which Meta may grant to you in its sole discretion, and you are not authorized to exercise any of the rights under…

Which open source costs dedicated usage of 16 thousand H100 over several months? C'mon folks, they're opening up for free to 99.99% of potential users what cost hundreds of millions of dollars, if not in the ballpark of a billion. Let's appreciate that, instead of focusing on semantics for a while.

I don’t think the largest tech companies in the world have earned that view of benevolence. Its real hard to take altruism seriously when it is coming from Zuckerberg.