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Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

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Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are countries that have discouraged big business and encouraged small business instead. The result is low levels of prosperity, because big business drives the wealth creation in the economy. Small businesses are needed, too, as they fill in the gaps and are the future big businesses. An economy made up of cottage businesses and local artisans handweaving baskets just cannot produce the kind of wealth that is p…

There is a very large scale in between "artisan" and a megacorp with a budget larger than many countries.

Economies of scale drive the prosperity of economies.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> clearly in Musk's antics at X I like Musk's version of twitter better than the old version. His tweets often make me laugh.

That's kinda sad, though, isn't it? Someone with that much power and influence, running the de-facto platform for all our journalism and politics, and he's just laughable. I find that sad. Like watching a clown performing a slapstick routine and then realising that that isn't a clown and the slapstick is an important part of our societal infrastructure.

I don't find having a sense of humor "sad".

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> amoral wealth-hoarders They're not hoarding wealth. They don't have any Scrooge McDuck cash faults. Their money is all invested , i.e. put to work creating things that people want. > moralists ... capitalists History shows us that societies based on morals (religious, ideological) fare extremely poorly compared with societies based on rights (free markets). Like it or not, for a large, prosperous society you must h…

Societies like the Islamic society are based on both morals and rights, and have done very well in the past before post WWI colonization and divide & concquer, which continues to this day. For example, Islam is generally pro free markets, with red lines that protect the society (e.g. no usury, no lying, respect individual property, etc.).

Not being able to loan money in exchange for interest is a major impediment to free markets. Financial markets are a major enabler.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#834

I feel bad for dang in all this Is like the worst situation for him where despite there really being no causal connection between hacker news and Sam Altman in any kind of functional way, the reality of the connections and the Zeitgeist of the this moment, makes this topic continue to rise to the top and has dominated over the last, let’s say a couple weeks In an odd way because of how close this community is to all…

Thanks, but this isn't the worst situation. If you want to feel bad for me I can mention some things that are much worse!

This is an ordinary case of two regular phenomena: (a) a major ongoing topic; and (b) negative stories about anything YC-related. We deal with them as follows:

(a) We deal with a Major Ongoing Topic (MOT) [1] by downweighting follow-ups [2] and reserving frontpage slots for stories with Significant New Information (SNI) [3]. This is the approach we worked out back in 2013 after the Snowden debacle (I don't mean the debacle involving Edward Snowden, I mean the debacle involving Snowden-related stories on HN's front page). It has held up well in the years since. It requires a judgment call about what is/isn't "significant new information" but that's usually not too controversial and in any case it doesn't matter whether the information is positive or negative, nor who it's about.

(b) We deal with stories that are negative about something YC-related by moderating less than we normally would [4]. Note the word "less"—i.e. we still moderate those threads, using the standard principles we normally apply. We just do it less when the story is negative about YC. That's another approach that has held up well over the years.

It's fairly rare that we get a MOT which is also YC-negative. In such a case we're going to get complaints no matter what we do: if we apply the normal principle of downweighting follow-ups, people will accuse us of censoring the story; but if we don't, people will complain about the frontpage being filled with follow-ups.

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

[2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que..., because https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

[3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

[4] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Societies like the Islamic society are based on both morals and rights, and have done very well in the past before post WWI colonization and divide & concquer, which continues to this day. For example, Islam is generally pro free markets, with red lines that protect the society (e.g. no usury, no lying, respect individual property, etc.).

Not being able to loan money in exchange for interest is a major impediment to free markets. Financial markets are a major enabler.

While usury is not permitted (in a broad definition: every loan that begets a benefit for the lender is prohibited), this does not preclude other contracts, such as buying shares in a project/company, or other forms of partnership. This way, the risk is better bore by both parties, and is fair to both.

Having red lines to prevent predatory behavior is important. We see the destructive results of allowing such behavior before our very eyes, from certain individuals and groups leveraging power, to entire classes of people remaining in crippling debt, fostering discord and unrest in society. Money printing (inflation), the student debt fiasco, the subprime mortgage fiasco, and more are just examples for us to contemplate.

Islam never claimed nor has a stated goal that everyone is going to be financially equal; quite the opposite in fact - different people will be tested differently (wealth and poverty are both tests). But this does not mean that we should not have a fairer playing field, one where people in the society help each other and care for each other, let alone one that is known to cause instability and predatory behavior.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like before there was doubts he was technical. Now it's clear he is not and was acting (at least regarding software) ... He lies, he gets caught up, that's it Says you, random HN poster. Here's the assessment of a NASA astronaut who spent time on the ISS and who has a PhD in mechanical engineering and a degree in applied mechanics: "[Musk is] able to have conversations with our top engineers about software, and the…

Curious for your take on this: https://venturebeat.com/ai/elon-musk-and-yann-lecuns-social-... Or this: > I personally wrote the first national maps, directions, yellow pages & white pages on the Internet in the summer of 1995 in C with a little C++. Didn't use a "web server" to save CPU cycles (just read port 8080 directly). Couldn't afford a Cisco T1 router, so wrote an emulator based on a white paper. Or maybe thi…

> What is so abnormal about this stack versus every other large-scale system on the planet, buddy? C’mon!

The "...buddy? C'mon!" framing is simply obnoxious. Who would engage with such a person in the first place?

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion this is most likely. Scenario A, Sam Altman continues as CEO and the for profit arm of OpenAI continues to call the shots, growth and market share continue to be priority number one. Scenario B, Sam Altman is fired, OpenAI non-profit board (re?)-asserts more control. Safety, alignment and other things like that take priority over growth and market share. x% of Employees are Sam believers, and when the r…

So then why did the board re-hire Sam Altman? A non-profit board should want a CEO befitting a non-profit company in my eyes, not one that promotes a for-profit culture. I see losing employees with for-profit motives as a desirable side effect of firing Sam Altman.

> I see losing employees with for-profit motives as a desirable side effect of firing Sam Altman.

That would shutdown the entire company.

And I would hope that wasn't their goal.

> So then why did the board re-hire Sam Altman?

Presumably so that the entire company wouldn't be shutdown.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#838

To be honest, my bias is against boards, especially non-profit boards who have no skin in the game and often an idealistic view that clashes with operational realities. The case of Altman seems to be a “where there’s smoke” thing to an extent, but I also am not inclined to trust the board over the employees who do seem to like him. Insofar as he steered OAI to be a consumer product company rather than a research inst…

"trust" is a funny word here. I trust the employees to be good employees, interested in the future of the companies and their jobs. I don't believe for a second that employees would put the non-profit's mission above that. It has nothing to do with trustworthiness.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#839

While I am somewhat sympathetic to the board based on what I have read about Altman's behavior pattern (he was allegedly fired from YC for similar reasons of not disclosing conflicts of interest), it is strange to me how thin the board members' resumes are. What notable achievements does Toner have? She's 32 and hasn't really built or run a company. Another board member is the wife of actor Joseph Gordon Levitt. Same…

Maybe that's why they did the (possibly) right thing in such a weird and ineffective manner.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#840

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kinda sad, though, isn't it? Someone with that much power and influence, running the de-facto platform for all our journalism and politics, and he's just laughable. I find that sad. Like watching a clown performing a slapstick routine and then realising that that isn't a clown and the slapstick is an important part of our societal infrastructure.

I don't find having a sense of humor "sad".

Laughing with him or at him?
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