Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

apnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

831–840 of 1001 posts

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#831

Post by peterashford »

reissbaker wrote: post #756
anon84873628 wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? And then everyone who wants peace invests lots of money and expertise over a long time to build a modern, prosperous, stable Palestinian society, despite whatever setbacks, attacks, and sabotage occur from within and without. The only way to have peace is to give people a better option than becoming terrorists.

This is not the approach the West took with ISIS, which involved similarly one-sided fights against terrorist forces [1], nor do I think it's an approach that would have worked. When "everyone who wants peace" doesn't include the people in control of the guns and rockets, who instead want to kill their enemies by any means necessary (and themselves do not respect international law), you can't simply dialogue your way…

Israel needs terms with Palestine, not with Hamas

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#832

Post by yyyk »

If you had an inkling of a genocide going on and a chance to act, obviously you'd immediately do anything in your power to stop it? Despite the judges being appointed by their own countries*, I'm sure they have humanity. So this is an acquittal in all but name.

Oh, they'll keep monitoring and the case will take years, but the result is obvious even now.

* e.g. It's obvious the Russian judge has strong incentives to vote as Putin tells them to, otherwise they'd have to move to a windowless basement where the only access is by an elevator...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#833

Post by yyyk »

reissbaker wrote: post #756
anon84873628 wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? And then everyone who wants peace invests lots of money and expertise over a long time to build a modern, prosperous, stable Palestinian society, despite whatever setbacks, attacks, and sabotage occur from within and without. The only way to have peace is to give people a better option than becoming terrorists.

This is not the approach the West took with ISIS, which involved similarly one-sided fights against terrorist forces [1], nor do I think it's an approach that would have worked. When "everyone who wants peace" doesn't include the people in control of the guns and rockets, who instead want to kill their enemies by any means necessary (and themselves do not respect international law), you can't simply dialogue your way…

Mosul had 40k civilian causalties (more than Hamas totals), the coalition just lied about it:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/mosul-m...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#834

Post by [deleted] »

teleforce wrote: post #805

Those who want to know the proper history and context of the current conflict, you really owe it to yourself to read this well researched book by Prof Rashid Khalidi, The Hundred Years' War on Palestine [1]. In his latest book he even mentioned Israel - Palestinian latest major war (fifth war in chronological order) in the form of many years of blockade on the people of Gaza. The fact that this book was published sev…

[deleted]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#835

Post by austin-cheney »

mrangle wrote: post #718

The primary problem was always that there are too many parties who have an interest in the existence of Hamas. Put differently, there are too many parties with an interest in using the Palestinians as pawns. Leaving aside the views of any specific Palestinian. As no serious person can dispute the ease of radicalizing destitute people without educations and with PTSD. As long as this is the case, the Palestinians, on…

The problem is tribalism. The primary goal is exclusive dominion, but a distant secondary goal of political and militaristic domination will suffice in the meantime. These aren’t my thoughts or conclusions but the stated goals of several of Israel’s most senior politicians, saying something to the effect of removing the inhabitants so that they can make the desert blossom.

The problems here can be solved peacefully and permanently if the dominant faction so wished. The most durable solution is to tear down the walls, annex the occupied territories, and make the Palestinian residents full and equal citizens of Israel. Israel has stated as much directly but refuses that solution because they fear their tribal identity will not longer be a numerical majority. Another less durable solution is a two state solution in opposition to military dominance, but Israel does not want that either. Tribalism. The parallels to the conflict in the Balkans, which was ruled a genocide, are many.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#836

Post by jdietrich »

amluto wrote: post #762
reissbaker wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the approach the West took with ISIS, which involved similarly one-sided fights against terrorist forces [1], nor do I think it's an approach that would have worked. When "everyone who wants peace" doesn't include the people in control of the guns and rockets, who instead want to kill their enemies by any means necessary (and themselves do not respect international law), you can't simply dialogue your way…

A major problem is that the Gazan people have very legitimate problems with Israel, and this leads to a situation in which enough of them become militant to cause serious problems. Solving that seems like it needs a more wholistic approach than simply trying to get rid of the militants at the cost of causing everyone else to have an even bigger beef with Israel.

I fully accept that many Palestinians are motivated to take up arms against the Israelis by a justifiable sense of grievance, but the issue of anti-Semitism long pre-dates the establishment of Israel and exists far beyond the Palestinian Territories. I really don't want to understate this point - from an outside perspective, it is almost impossible to comprehend the depth of hatred against Jews that exists across the Middle East.

Improving the living conditions of Palestinians is almost certainly a necessary precondition to lasting peace, but it is far from sufficient. Unfortunately, we are now stuck in a very stubborn vicious cycle - the Israel-Palestine conflict perpetuates anti-Semitism, which perpetuates the conflict.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War#...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#837

Post by peterashford »

maroonblazer wrote: post #758
Aeolun wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All correct and yet, what should happen? Happy, fed, employed people do not become terrorists. They have too much to lose.

Not if they have more to gain in 'heaven'. Remember, Hamas are religious fanatics.

hamas != palestine

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#838

Post by cma »

pgeorgi wrote: post #508
SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hostages are undesireable for Israel, as earlier they die/be killed the lesser leverage hamas will have. Besides, they will all be dangerous to official narrative, as they seem to have been treated ok by the militants.

You mean they were raped ok by the militants? https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/there-wasnt-a-moment-freed-h...

Are you talking about the Netanyahu quote at the end of the article only?

Otherwise there isn't a direct rape claim in there, but a witnessed missed period which they say could be due to rape or the witness also says it could be due to the harsh conditions (malnutrition is a real cause of it in some cases; Washington Post has reported on worries of refeeding syndrome in some of the released hostages so some were severely malnurished). I found an article with longer excerpts of the testimony and the dolls on a string quote was about inappropriate clothing provided and claims of abuse but the testimony excerpts there also didn't directly allege rape. Is the full transcript of the hearing out there somewhere?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#839

Post by hayst4ck »

1letterunixname wrote: post #147

ICJ didn't reach any conclusions or positions except that IDF needs to be careful. No call for a ceasefire. I'm curious what people in Tel Aviv see in media. In America, it's wall-to-wall "police say"-like IDF clips and Bill Maher condemnation, dehumanization, and equivocating Palestine supporters with Hamas terrorists. The talking heads cheerfully greet Netanyahu.

I have found the exact opposite. NPR, for example, spends a lot of time humanizing Gazans and showing that Israel is terrorizing them, quite literally.

NPR also frequently talked about the right wing/nationalist power seizures leading up to this.

Before the war, I think a good number of Americans saw Israel blowing up the Associated Press offices. It hardly matters what the excuse was.

I feel like every week I've heard a story about Israel telling Gazans where to go, and then bombing that location.

I'm not sure I saw any news outlet that didn't report 70% women and children casualties, which pretty much speaks for itself.

Nobody I went to college with supports Israel at all. Genocide Joe is not just used by his oponents. That name didn't come out of nowhere. Many of the people who voted for him agree his genocidal support of Israel is unacceptable.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#840

Post by loandbehold »

SirSavary wrote: post #768
reissbaker wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the approach the West took with ISIS, which involved similarly one-sided fights against terrorist forces [1], nor do I think it's an approach that would have worked. When "everyone who wants peace" doesn't include the people in control of the guns and rockets, who instead want to kill their enemies by any means necessary (and themselves do not respect international law), you can't simply dialogue your way…

Note: ISIS was a bunch of European guys who got radicalized and then travelled to the middle east; Hamas is homegrown and was democratically elected by the people of the region.

[flagged]
Post reply on HN