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Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

theguardian.com

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Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#831

Post by physicles »

g8oz wrote: post #310
physicles wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not. The war is being waged with the intent to destroy Hamas (which has itself stated that its goal is to destroy Israel, if given the chance), not to kill every last Palestinian. See also https://youtu.be/L9n77DPJ7AE

You're taking Israeli intent at face value. Anyone paying attention to the discourse in Israeli society and amongst their leadership class will understand that this is a war against the Palestinian people.They have been quite open about destroying systems of life to create a self-sustaining humanitarian catastrophe that will force the relocation of Gazans to the Sinai. And the virtual certainty of eye-watering civili…

Do you have some relatively neutral sources that are reporting on the discourse among the leadership? I've heard bits here and there, and of course Netanyahu is a human piece of shit who is unfortunately still in power.

But most pro-Palestine sources are both-sidesing and merely comparing raw civilian casualty numbers. They ignore the fact that Hamas's intention on Oct 7 was to target and brutally murder civilians, and that Hamas is intentionally making it hard for Israel to minimize civilian casualties as it wages this war.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#832

Post by lovelyviking »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #679
mgraczyk wrote: post #336

Interestingly if you read the actual report from HRW, it sounds like most of the material they are referring too was legitimately taken down because it supported violence, according to Meta's policies. For example, the phrase "from the river to the see" is considered hateful by many, so it was taken down. In other cases the content praised attacks by Hamas, which is designated as a terrorist organization by the US go…

The irony of banning the phrase, "From the river to the sea" is that in almost every Israeli school, there are maps on the wall that show Israel extending from the river to the sea.[0] Greater Israel, extending from the river to the sea, with the Palestinians as stateless people with no rights, is a de facto reality, and has been for 56 years now. 0. This is a typical map. The only indication that there is any Palest…

>The irony of banning the phrase, "From the river to the sea" …

The irony is to talk about the irony without realising the extreme nature of the phrase “From the river to the sea…” for any of the sides. Someone can as easily adapt the same phrase for calls to remove non-jewish population from the land yet the commentator felt the urge to see the irony in “banning the phrase” (as he put it) without thinking through the outcome of using such phrase in all of it’s dangerous aspects.

>every Israeli school, there are maps on the wall that show Israel extending from the river to the sea.[0]

The linked map is from post on quora [1] which does not state that.

To the question : “What borders does Israel show in maps in school textbooks?”

It states the following:

“ It really depends on the age.

TLDR - the books mostly show area international borders with markings for area A, But don’t shy away from the existence of the P.A. In higher grades, they show the evolution of the borders, and the idea that nothing is really fixed or “promised”.

Long answer:

I’ve made a small check on books available on my Child’s elementary school online website. …”

Notice “ elementary school online website.” while commentator states: “ in almost every Israeli school, there are maps on the wall”

Even this one post from only one school speaks about variety of maps presented to children but commentator simply ignores that.

Commentator takes 1 of 10 maps posted there. The one for the smallest age and claims “This is a typical map”

The real irony though is vivid if one looks at the official logo of PLO here [2] who’s chairman is Mahmoud Abbas. It shows the whole map “from the river to the sea” without any marking for Israel. Commentator criticises Israeli maps for only :“ "Area A" regions are in a different color.” and forgot to mention that PLO does not have any color for Israel in fact. The logo is currently on the official PLO web site.

> Palestinians as stateless people with no rights, is a de facto reality, and has been for 56 years now.

The third irony is mentioning “56 years” and forgetting to mention that Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 [2] pretty much to the border before 1967.

[1] https://www.quora.com/What-borders-does-Israel-show-in-maps-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organizat...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaz...

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#833

Post by lovelyviking »

drawkward wrote: post #687
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony of banning the phrase, "From the river to the sea" is that in almost every Israeli school, there are maps on the wall that show Israel extending from the river to the sea.[0] Greater Israel, extending from the river to the sea, with the Palestinians as stateless people with no rights, is a de facto reality, and has been for 56 years now. 0. This is a typical map. The only indication that there is any Palest…

Furthermore, a soverign Israel "from the river to the sea" was a founding tenet of Israel's Likud party, of which Netanyahu is a member. It is no longer an explicit goal of Likud.

Can you as well describe and remind us how logo of PLO looks today ?

You can find it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organizat...

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#834

Post by lovelyviking »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #757
drawkward wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furthermore, a soverign Israel "from the river to the sea" was a founding tenet of Israel's Likud party, of which Netanyahu is a member. It is no longer an explicit goal of Likud.

Furthermore, the Israeli flag itself is the Star of David (representing Israeli land) between two blue lines which are the river and the sea. It has always been Israel’s slogan and aim, “from the river to the sea”.

Can you as well describe us how logo of PLO looks today ? You can find it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organizat...

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#835

Post by lovelyviking »

bjourne wrote: post #483
rayiner wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, the phrase "from the river to the see" is considered hateful by many The phrase has its origins in Arab nationalism. It was coined in 1960 by the PLO to refer to the goal of an Arab state that occupies the entirety of what was Mandatory Palestine. If you ignore the subtext of “what happens to the Jews in that situation” I suppose you can make a case for it. It’s like the confederate flag. In the 20th c…

Comparing the chant "from the river to the sea" with the confederate flag is completely preposterous. The chant is a call for liberation . Anyone who has a problem with someone's freedom is themselves a racist and probably has a lot of views in common with what the confederate flag stands for. Fwiw, the phrase was coined by Jewish settlers in the 1930's ( https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2018-12-16/ty-artic..…

> … whose opinions no one should take seriously.

Should we take your opinion seriously instead? Unfortunately you do not share it.

You’ve repeatedly been asked “What Israel should do in your opinion in current situation and what outcome you expect once it does it?” and you repeatedly have failed to produce any answer to that question even in simplified form.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38582722

> The chant is a call for liberation.

Let’s try again : How this “liberation” would look like ? And what outcome you expect to see once it’s done ?

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#836

Post by itsoktocry »

LtWorf wrote: post #494
mgraczyk wrote: post #336

Interestingly if you read the actual report from HRW, it sounds like most of the material they are referring too was legitimately taken down because it supported violence, according to Meta's policies. For example, the phrase "from the river to the see" is considered hateful by many, so it was taken down. In other cases the content praised attacks by Hamas, which is designated as a terrorist organization by the US go…

I've seen comments saying "yes please, show me more bombings, I love to see them die" not taken down, because "them" was palestinians. I wonder how long the comment would have been up, if it was referring to the other side instead. edit: I see from the downvotes that my experience doesn't fit your bias. Sorry people -_-

>I've seen comments saying "yes please, show me more bombings, I love to see them die" not taken down, because "them" was palestinians.*

Do you have any proof of this whatsoever? First that these posts actually exist (this I believe) and that the reason they weren't taken down was because they were about Palestinians (versus, say, overlooked so far)?

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#837

Post by Aerbil313 »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #758
smsm42 wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's indeed pointless, because it is a lie, always was a lie and continues being a lie. Naming the names of some of the far-left groups doesn't make it less of a lie. Arabs in Israel are integrated, have representation in the Knesset and full legal, electoral and all other rights. Talking about "apartheid" is nonsense, which is obvious to anybody who knows what this word means and what legal policies actually exist i…

If this[1] is not apartheid, then nothing is. Separate parks with locked doors for children of different religion, the key given to Jewish moms. 1: Raw video by The Guardian, not even much commentary, see with your own eyes: https://youtu.be/ksnLom8OD9E?si=aYvcLqcLQK960fbx

I'm sorry, I just realized there are no separate parks, typo. There are only fenced and locked parks for Jewish children. No parks for the indigenous Palestininans.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#838

Post by itsoktocry »

mongol wrote: post #522
mgraczyk wrote: post #336

Interestingly if you read the actual report from HRW, it sounds like most of the material they are referring too was legitimately taken down because it supported violence, according to Meta's policies. For example, the phrase "from the river to the see" is considered hateful by many, so it was taken down. In other cases the content praised attacks by Hamas, which is designated as a terrorist organization by the US go…

I don't see why "From the river to the see" would be hateful in isolation. Certainly some people who say it may have hateful thoughts in their minds, but wishing for palestinian land where Israel is now is not hateful in itself.

>I don't see why "From the river to the see" would be hateful in isolation.

It's crazy to me the a lot of the same crowd saying, "I don't see how this is hateful" are the same people who told us that the "Okay" symbol meant "white power" and was literal violence.

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#839

Post by itsoktocry »

sudosysgen wrote: post #184
dlubarov wrote: post #121

Are you saying that changes on Israel's part could cause Hamas to stop their aggression? That seems very unlikely - Hamas doesn't even pretend to be open to peaceful coexistence with Israel. Their best offer was a 10-year ceasefire in exchange for 1967 borders. Or that it could lead to Gazans overthrowing Hamas? It's possible, but it would take a violent rebellion since Hamas doesn't hold elections, and realistically…

This is greatly complicated by the fact that Israel materially supported Hamas and saw it as useful. Ultimately Israelis don't have to suffer serious attacks from Hamas. Hamas doesn't have that power, militarily - only gross incompetence from the IDF allows that kind of attack. On the other hand, Israel is not facing good geopolitical headwinds. As Yemen demonstrated, they are extremely vulnerable to a blockade. One…

>in the not so distant future, the US won't be able to intercept all the missiles of Israel's enemies on its behalf, and Israel will have to contend with the threat of a total blockade.

The US + Israel + allies can/will absolutely level these countries if necessary. Both history and current events demonstrate that. Do you really think they are at the mercy of what Yemen does?

Re: Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, report claims

#840

Post by Aerbil313 »

lovelyviking wrote: post #834
Aerbil313 wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furthermore, the Israeli flag itself is the Star of David (representing Israeli land) between two blue lines which are the river and the sea. It has always been Israel’s slogan and aim, “from the river to the sea”.

Can you as well describe us how logo of PLO looks today ? You can find it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organizat ...

It apparently does include the map of Palestine pre-Israel. This makes sense, in the very same way as the current Palestine protesters' slogan 'from the river to the sea', it's a reaction to the illegal settlement (which still has the same slogan based on their religion) and expresses the desire for liberation.

From the original 1977 manifesto of the current Likud party[1]:

> The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

Ever heard of Nakba[2]? History of Palestine, how everyone was living peacefully under Ottoman rule and the current state of apartheid, that is, children's parks fenced and locked, keys given to Jewish mothers[3]? The civilian body count that has now exceeded 25 thousand, in a country with a median age of 19[4]?

1: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform... , also referenced in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea

2: https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/

3: See with your own eyes, hear directly from the mouth of children: https://youtu.be/ksnLom8OD9E?si=aYvcLqcLQK960fbx

4: https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/state-of-palestin...

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