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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#831

Post by infamouscow »

wayfinder wrote: post #701
bhouston wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's realpolitik. It's not about Israel It is not at all. This funding is only occurring because of AIPAC and similar organizations including Christian groups who want to see the end times happen and supporting Israel is apparently important for that. Israel is not a counter balance to Russia at all. And Israel (specifically Netanyahu and AIPAC) undermined the Iran agreement that was going to see them stop their nu…

No, if you read history, Israel had done a ton of stuff to make Europe and America happy. They invaded the Suez Canal when Egypt tried to nationalize it. They did it for France and Britain. During the Cold War, they provided of information to the US govt about Soviet assets. They also tell the US information about other countries from their intelligence. The fact of the matter is Israel’s neighbors hate Israel so the…

> The fact of the matter is Israel’s neighbors hate Israel

If we're going to be discussing facts, I think we should be fair to all sides, not just a minority.

The fact of the matter is those people decided to pick up everything and move into a region that already had people living there, and with neighbors that didn't like it then, nor now.

What's that meme where someone is riding a bike and puts a pipe in the spokes just to blame someone else called?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#833

Post by proc0 »

wazoox wrote: post #560
proc0 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The videos of destruction and death in Gaza are far more horrific than corresponding videos in Israel Maybe you haven't seen enough of what happened in 10/7 then. I would rather get hit by a bomb then tortured to death in the most horrific way possible.

Even when dug out at some point, following a long and painful agony people crushed under collapsed buildings almost always die. Particularly in Gaza where medical supplies are now non-existent. Lots of innocents are dying; there is IMO absolutely no amount of reasoning that can justify it, under any circumstances. It's just wrong. It must stop, period.

Yeah, that's pretty bad, but it lacks the terror and the brutality. Many people survive accidents of that magnitude and recover sooner or later. I cannot imagine being taken hostage, seeing your family members tortured and killed in front of you and dehumanized. I don't think anyone comes back from that.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#834

Post by mupuff1234 »

markdown wrote: post #809
etothepii wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the scale matter? In the legal codes with which I am familiar mens rea matters. Murder is not just worse than manslaughter it is on a different level. Western criminal codes generally allow for no punishment, perhaps even no guilt, for a manslaughter. If Israel could remove Hamas without injuring any non-combatants I think they would. It makes a difference. Almost by definition suggesting that scale is a fac…

> If Israel could remove Hamas without injuring any non-combatants I think they would. Surely you jest. How is this attack supposed to remove Hamas? It seems designed to strengthen Hamas, just as Israel has been supporting Hamas since their formation. The existence of Hamas prevents a united Palestinian people while simultaneously giving Israel the excuse to reject a 2-state solution. If Hamas didn't exist, Israel wo…

You seem to ignore the fact that Palestinians have rejected a 2-state solution and have elected hamas themselves.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#835

Post by lazyasciiart »

rendall wrote: post #643
cies wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> equally abohorrent Comparing it to the Ukraine's invasion and we can see this is so much more "invasive". There's a literal wall around 2M ppl with little agency, while most of them are refugees from the other side of the wall. To methis is one of the most abohorrent conflicts in earth in this day and age. Given South Africa is no longer segregated, and Rwanda reconciled. I'd be interested to hear what's equally ab…

> There's a literal wall around 2M ppl with little agency, while most of them are refugees from the other side of the wall. There is a really very simple solution for them to have all of the dignity, agency, independence, prosperity, peace, sovereignty, stability to raise children, etc that you and I want for the Palestinian people. They only have to - and hear me out - not kill Jews. It really is that simple. Don't…

So you agree that every Palestinian who has never killed a Jew is being unfairly oppressed and should be allowed to immediately live in freedom. Great, that’s what, 1.999 million of them in Gaza?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#836

Post by proc0 »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #363
proc0 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because on the surface it's an interracial conflict (it's not really, I guess, but that is the perception for most), and lots of people are obsessed over racial dynamics and analyzing history through that lens. There are so many other conflicts going on with many more dead, but if it's not interracial then somehow it is not talked about.

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Yeah it's a silly take, tbh. To clarify I just mean that's the reason people pay attention. That's why there's the colonizer narrative going on that fuels a lot of teh protests. But yeah it's more complicated than just that.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#838

Post by NoLsAfterMid »

slibhb wrote: post #776
mastrsplyntr wrote: post #395

Why is America so fixated on Israel? Groups like AIPAC and the Israeli lobby seem to be steering U.S. policies in ways that don't necessarily benefit the U.S., while potentially harming its interests. Here's what's at stake: This alliance seems to be turning about two billion people and dozens of muslim-majority nations against America, driving them towards alliances with countries like China. American taxpayer money…

It's not just America. Everyone is fixated on the Jews (for or against). There's plenty of ethno-religious conflicts all around the world but the world only cares about one of them. Also, "lobbying" is a boogeyman here. Americans support Israel for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with lobbying. Israel is a settler society, it's a country of immigrants, much like the US. Israel has a rule of law, it's a d…

[flagged]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#839

Post by hedora »

turquoisevar wrote: post #541
jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

There’s a reason why Goldbloom charted “change in likelihood” instead of simply showing sentiments in the chart. The reason is that if you look at the raw data he made available[0], the differences in sentiment between platforms are statistically insignificant. To say nothing of conflating anti-Israel sentiments with antisemitism. > US views skew pro-israel, and GenZ is closer to 50/50 The latest Gallup[1] says it’s…

The poll asked if they backed their current military action. That’s not the same as being pro- or anti-Israeli.

In fact, less Israelis support the war than any of the American groups you mentioned. Only 29% support the war, with 49% against.

(Note: the poll you cite doesn’t allow for unsure, making the numbers incomparable. I worded the above to count unsure as “not supportive of”. If you count them as “supporting”, then Americans are still about as supportive as Israelis.).

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-poll-finds...

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#840

Post by infamouscow »

TheCaptain4815 wrote: post #620
mastrsplyntr wrote: post #395

Why is America so fixated on Israel? Groups like AIPAC and the Israeli lobby seem to be steering U.S. policies in ways that don't necessarily benefit the U.S., while potentially harming its interests. Here's what's at stake: This alliance seems to be turning about two billion people and dozens of muslim-majority nations against America, driving them towards alliances with countries like China. American taxpayer money…

Don’t forget about stretching the American military thin against China (our real political foe) and the fact Israel has illegal nukes and is willing to end humanity if they ever lose their homeland.

At the level of nation-states, there is an anarchistic relationship between one another. There's no real concept of legality at an international level when you peel away all the bureaucratic nonsense. John J. Mearsheimer touches on this briefly in his interview with Lex Fridman: https://youtu.be/r4wLXNydzeY

The permanent members of the UN's Security Council do not abide by laws they force other members to abide by. This is because there really are great powers in the world, which, despite being difficult for people in the West to understand, is very obvious in the rest of the world.

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