Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

831–840 of 864 posts

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#831

Post by vel0city »

gwbas1c wrote: post #760
vel0city wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All Teslas come with Autopilot. It's adaptive cruise control and automatic steering that will keep you in your lane. So like every Honda Accord as well.

And it works in stop and go traffic. The Accord only goes down to something like 30-40 mph.

Example video of Honda Sensing low speed follow/stop and go traffic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs-e8QzTo7w

You don't need to be in 30+mph traffic for Honda Sensing to work. Most Level 2 ADAS systems behave similarly.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#832

Post by ajross »

clouddrover wrote: post #830
ajross wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ditto. Most fun I've had in a vehicle in my whole life. A robot drives me around every day, and the worst misfeatures are that it's too timid at stop signs and left turns, makes poor lane choices sometimes (oops, can't turn, will go around), occasionally zipper merges like a jerk (yes, technically you can use that lane, but if you try you'll get honked at -- car doesn't care). But the company is run by an asshole who…

> FSD isn't finished "Full self-driving" has not been delivered after years worth of lies. It isn't about "murder and death and moral absolutism". It's about fraud. Your vehicle is a dead end. It will not be upgraded to the latest hardware. It will not attain "full self-driving".

This is a "me or your lying eyes" argument. It drives my kids to school. Why is it so important to you that I not enjoy the product I purchased and love? You realize you aren't going to win an argument like that, right? You think I'm going to just wake up and realize that it can't do what I see it do?

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#833

Post by buffington »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #777
buffington wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Tesla replaced the actual computer that runs the software that they're recalling, would you consider that a recall? What if there was no actual physical fault with the computer, but it just had firmware flashed to a chip that couldn't be reflashed? I'm looking at a piece of mail right now that's an official recall notice for a different make/model of car I own. The issue? Improperly adjusted steering components. T…

> If Tesla replaced the actual computer that runs the software that they're recalling, would you consider that a recall? Yeah, it requires physically taking the car to a mechanic or dealer who does this. Very different from using the software update button on the car touchscreen. > Improperly adjusted steering components. The company is offering to make the correct adjustments for free. Nothing is being replaced. Thi…

> it requires taking the vehicle to a mechanic or dealer.

Nope.

If you insist on believing this, I'd recommend reading the document found here:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/14218-...

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#834

Post by thepasswordis »

bena wrote: post #796
thepasswordis wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…what? No I am not following that. The safety score is a representation of the metrics used to determine the insurance rate. This is not in any way circular. The insurance rate and the safety score are representative of the same thing: safe driving. https://www.tesla.com/support/safety-score#version-1.2

They're both from Tesla. There's no real proof that they're representative of safe driving. And you kind of want it to flow both ways: "the safety score represents good driving, so I get cheaper insurance" and "I get cheaper insurance so the safety score must represent good driving". You're trying to use each of these things to validate the other so you can then claim it's something entirely else. I think it's tellin…

Man I think you're really confused about what the "safety score is". Here it is stated a simpler way:

Tesla tracks driving style and gives you an insurance rate based on those driving habits.

My insurance rate is about $90, which is the lowest the rate goes, because the things it tracks (following distance, for one) corresponds to a lower liability risk for the insurance underwriter, which in this case, is tesla.

The monthly price is directly correlated to driving habits. You seem to be getting confused about "safety score".

I'm genuinely confused as to what about this doesn't make sense to you.

Tesla is the underwriter. They give a monthly premium based on driving habits.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#835

Post by giobox »

winter_blue wrote: post #735
giobox wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - the "recall" here is an OTA software update already scheduled for release. Availability remains exactly the same as far as I'm aware, and existing systems still function until updated. FWIW, NHTSA "recalls" are often OTA software updates nowadays rather than something the vehicle or feature has to be taken off road for to fix or update. The NHTSA legislation from the 60s was drafted when cars didn't have softwar…

Does the OTA disable Beta though?

No, its literally just a scheduled OTA software update for anyone who has it installed.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#836

Post by clouddrover »

ajross wrote: post #832
clouddrover wrote: post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FSD isn't finished "Full self-driving" has not been delivered after years worth of lies. It isn't about "murder and death and moral absolutism". It's about fraud. Your vehicle is a dead end. It will not be upgraded to the latest hardware. It will not attain "full self-driving".

This is a "me or your lying eyes" argument. It drives my kids to school . Why is it so important to you that I not enjoy the product I purchased and love? You realize you aren't going to win an argument like that, right? You think I'm going to just wake up and realize that it can't do what I see it do?

It doesn't matter how you rationalise it to yourself or how irresponsible you are in using it. Your car does not do full self-driving. It is stranded on Hardware 3. It will not get Hardware 4 unless a lawsuit enforces it: https://electrek.co/2023/02/15/tesla-self-driving-hw4-comput...

Tesla has lied about full self-driving for years: https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now...

Tesla has admitted to false advertising around full self-driving: https://electrek.co/2022/12/12/tesla-ordered-upgrade-self-dr...

Tesla has admitted that they have failed to deliver full self-driving. Tesla is now scrambling around trying to avoid being done for fraud: https://electrek.co/2022/12/07/tesla-self-driving-claims-fai...

If even Tesla can admit it, find a way to admit it to yourself.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#837

Post by worik »

drowsspa wrote: post #367
worik wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That Tesla was allowed to test in production without any legal liability with real human lives mostly because of Musk's personal influence is a disgrace I am unsure what"allowed" means in that context. They just did it. The lawsuits are coming, surely? Sometimes it is better to ask for forgiveness than for permission. This was an audacious example. Time will tell if there is anything that will stop them.

I mean, "ask for forgiveness than permission" for an AI conducting a 1 ton machine that carries live human beings borders on psychopathy.

That is my point. It is audacious, and they must be stopped.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#838

Post by fnordpiglet »

buildbot wrote: post #189
fnordpiglet wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I use it all the time in seattle here on my model x. It’s amazing. Sometimes it makes a questionable decision but the vast majority of the time it works as expected. I don’t mind being alert to the driving conditions, and the amount it can do without assistance is remarkable

I hope I am not next to you when it makes those "questionable" decisions...

You think that’s better than the questionable decisions a human makes? When a human makes one who corrects it? With autopilot you face the joint distribution of it and me making a mistake rather than either of us.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#839

Post by [deleted] »

jim0266 wrote: post #829
yazzku wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody outside of tech understands it this way. "Full Self-Driving Beta" is a marketing stunt that borders on fraud. These cars can't drive themselves for shit, they're not even in beta.

You own/owned a Tesla with FSD Beta, right? You have driven it extensively to see and understand its capabilities and how it's improved, right? I've driven FSD Beta now for more than a year. Based on my experience you have no clue about which are speaking.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#840

Post by diebeforei485 »

moremetadata wrote: post #780
diebeforei485 wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they get the letter in the mail, they'll know to take their car to the nearest library or Starbucks or wherever with wi-fi to install the update.

So Tesla vehicles dont ping notices to other tesla vehicles passing out update info, in much the same way like the covid smartphone bluetooth vicinity checks worked. Thats surprises me, I think even Windows now lets an updated computer notify and update other windows pc's that are more off grid, its called delivery optimisation, but should work for local hotspots in the wild.

Cars driving past each other rarely are in range for long enough to communicate meaningfully.

Locations where multiple Tesla vehicles are likely to congregate - Superchargers and Tesla retail/service locations - already have good internet connectivity.

Post reply on HN