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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#831

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

djur wrote: post #215
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't want my food messed with If someone has the mentality that they are free to spoil your food because they won't get a (good) tip, then they don't deserve to be paid at all , let alone be tipped well. There's a lot of things the US has that are extremely strange, and the tipping culture is amongst them.

You don't bribe someone because you think they deserve a bribe. That's not a bribe, it's a gift.

I ought to clarify: I meant that waiters don't deserve their wages and don't deserve to work if they think that spoiling customers' food is an acceptable reaction to a low/nonexistent tip.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#832

Post by jandrewrogers »

pull_my_finger wrote: post #777
jandrewrogers wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context matters. The dynamics of the business are fundamentally different because many employees prefer tips to the alternative, and they have have many options where to work. Employees have a lot of leverage due to a chronic labor shortage. This dynamic has played out time and again in Seattle, where business owners tried to switch to a "no tipping" model with a 20% mandatory service charge but ultimately had to rel…

> tried to switch to a "no tipping" model with a 20% mandatory service charge Sounds like a false dichotomy. Why is the only other option still an imposed cost on the customer? Wouldn't it be nice if the bad servers just got fired like any other profession and the good servers got a bonus or something from the business owner? Maybe people shouldn't "aspire" to be cafe baristas and chain restaurant wait staff. There a…

There is no revenue/wage neutral way of restructuring how the costs are presented. A 20% service charge generates less income for waiters than tipping. Adding 20% to menu items generates less income for waiters than adding a 20% service charge. This effect isn't due to redistribution but a reduction in bill + tip revenue. No one has to like it but there is a lot of empirical evidence for this effect (and there are good theories as to why it happens).

By trying to eliminate tipping, you are working against the interest of waiters since they naturally want to maximize their income. You may not like tipping but it is economically optimal in many contexts. Businesses need to compete for employees and tipping maximizes employee income relative to revenue.

Where I live, most of the bartenders and waiters I know personally earn on the order of $80k/year if they do it full-time, and not at high-end establishments. Not an ostentatious lifestyle but definitely middle class.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#833

Post by CalRobert »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #324
hgsgm wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you tip the cook when the cook does a really good job?

At least in the cafes I worked in as an undergrad we split tips between the waitstaff and kitchen, which of course also sort of shifts around the "rewarding good service" aspect, but I think then you feel like you're letting down your coworkers if you piss off customers enough for them to tip badly.

When I was a dish washer I worked my ass off (meanwhile the cooks just filled baskets with sous vide crap and pushed a button). I didn't get jack.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#834

Post by frankfrankfrank »

jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

Keep in mind that a far more pernicious and rather evil system is that of the donation receiving “non-profit”. It has over time been exposed and highlighted at various points, but I don’t think it has really at all penetrated the consciousness of the general public as to what a vast majority of “non-profits are, borderline con-jobs; and that’s being generous.

I won’t go into explaining and outlining exactly why that is for the time being, but suffice it to say that I have personal knowledge of the extremely manipulative industry that “non-profits” are. But I get it, some will not want to believe me, I mean they’re called “non-profits” and profits are bad, right?

The point of my caution is essentially this, what you are trying to avoid by stopping tipping, you will only far undo by essentially making “non-profit” executives and their friends and family rich instead of that money going to your employees.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#835

Post by jFriedensreich »

in vietnam and estonia i encounter regularly someone refusing to take a tip or even seem slightly offended and it took me a while to get the right signals when it seems condescending, but it felt quite relieving to accept no tips are the default. especially delivery drivers made a real shift from being happy about tips to being proud and refusing and instead wanting real recognition by their companies and a livable salary instead of seeing responsibility shift to gratitudes.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#836

Post by inetknght »

BuckyBeaver wrote: post #740
inetknght wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we don't accept cash either. Not accepting tips is one thing. But not accepting cash means you will never have me as a customer. Edit: I've already walked away from a dozen different food places in airports because of this kind of trash: please install this app, can't pay in cash, can't see a menu without scanning a QR code, use an iPad with shitty touchscreen that I can barely see or use... I just wanted to order…

It's also illegal if they give you the item before you pay. Cash is "legal for all debts.' So if they let you establish a debt (by, for example, drinking some coffee), they must let you settle it in cash,

Cash is legal for all debts but I don't believe cash is required to be accepted. I'm no lawyer though...

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#837

Post by seb1204 »

ggm wrote: post #288
bilsbie wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a no tipping restaurant we used to go to and the service was reliably terrible. Hopefully the rating system will work but I’d say you do need some kind of system. On the other hand Chick-fil-A is able to make their employees act friendly. I wonder how they do it. Finally I do wish you’d accept cash just for people that want to preserve their privacy.

This is kind of anecdata. We've all had terrible service, and some of us live in economies which are no tip or no routine tip. At scale, I continue to believe there isn't a strong relationship between tipping and service, as much as between salary and service or service culture and service. Transition periods are always complex. If tipping was verboten there would still be a cohort complaining about it for years, abo…

I always thought good service is based in good training and staff education. Which includes basics of the business that happy customers return...

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#838

Post by seb1204 »

mmsimanga wrote: post #569
unethical_ban wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go to a bar that is cashless and still see people have to leave because they only had cash (or didn't want to use their card). To play devil's advocate, credit cards are another way to get tracked, a great way for a duopoly of companies to skim 1-3% off the economy, a way to be analyzed by the merchant, a way to get more explicitly prompted to pay a 20% tip, and more hassle than handing a $5 for a $4.73 coffee and…

> a great way for a duopoly of companies to skim 1-3% off the economy I mean by all means use your card everywhere but I think we should make a concerted effort to keep our options open.

I am a user that is drawn in by the convenience of paying with card or tap or phone. But I am not advocating to abandon cash or the cashless society.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#839

Post by bryanrasmussen »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #524
dang wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should write a longer piece about your coffee shop! and the process behind it. If you do, you should submit it to HN - and if you do that you should email us (hn@ycombinator.com) because we might put it in the second-chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ).

I love how one person opened a coffee shop which basically operates like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US , and you guys need a detailed write up, charts, flow charts, tips for the secret sauce :)

it's almost like that coffee shop will need to compete against other coffee shops in the US that operate differently and might be seen as having an advantage, comply with US laws, and - as they discussed here - communicate to customers their salient differences - and that HN is the kind of place that might be interested in such things.
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