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SBF Arrested by Bahamian Authorities

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Re: SBF Arrested by Bahamian Authorities

#831

Post by tim333 »

323 wrote: post #22
rjbwork wrote: post #4

Much sooner than I expected. Figured it'd be a couple of years before the AG was secure enough in their case to bring charges. This is MUCH faster than Madoff or Holmes. Then again, he's been much more out in the open about everything. He pretty much laid the prosecution's case out to the public for them.

SBF literally stole billions from a bank account. Not a very subtle crime.

I was a victim, FTX the company definitely stole assets from my brokerage (not bank) account which their terms and conditions said they would not. The trickier bit is showing personal responsibility of SBF rather than someone else in the company. That's why no one got locked up for the 2008 crash - the companies obviously did bad stuff but it was hard to pin on an individual. I imagine in this case they have some personal evidence SBF was in on it.

Re: SBF Arrested by Bahamian Authorities

#832

Post by Alupis »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #406
Alupis wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not really. Not being compelled to testify against yourself is also one of the most important rights this country has enshrined. Congress isn't a court, and he was not testifying because congress arrested him or anything - it doesn't work that way. He was going to testify - and a lot of people testify in front of congress all the time. But you used to have to do it in person until the pandemic. Now that congress is…

Congress has the power to charge people with crimes. If Sam wants to testify that’s his choice, but he can’t be forced to

We're talking about two different things

SBF was going to testify. He was going to do it remotely.

My issue is remotely was not an option before the pandemic. It was allowed during the pandemic for good reason, but now that reason doesn't exist anymore. Therefore, remote testifying should not be allowed anymore either...

Re: SBF Arrested by Bahamian Authorities

#833

Post by mike_hearn »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #707
yabatopia wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they don't need a cooprerating witness or special deals. Apparently the companies were really badly run, with lots of clear-cut violations, making it very easy to file charges. From The Verge article about the arrest of Bankman-Fried ( https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/12/23506483/sam-bankman-fri... ) : John J. Ray III, who has taken over for Bankman-Fried as CEO of FTX and whose credentials include supervising…

John J. Ray III is a star. The board did right to hire him for the clean-up. I am sure he is cooperating closely with US and Bahamian authorities for criminal evidence gathering. And, he is being paid ~2.6M USD annualised (1,300 USD per hour, 2,000+ hours per year). Seems cheap to clean-up that mess. It might take 5-10 years for full clean-up and wind-down. As the mess is so extensive, I wonder if some board members…

Who is paying him that amount and where is the money coming from to do so?

Re: SBF Arrested by Bahamian Authorities

#834

Post by rtkwe »

Tepix wrote: post #826
seanhunter wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe all the evidence they need is on chain. That would be interestingly ironic.

One of the problems of these centralized exchanges is that so much stuff happens off-chain. The DEX don't have these problems (some of them have other problems)

One of the major charges though is that they misdirected funds to Alameda Research or had people deposit directly to them instead which would be happening on chain. The failed arbitrage would have also required a lot of on-chain activity.

Re: SBF Arrested by Bahamian Authorities

#835

Post by wittycardio »

shapefrog wrote: post #823
pclmulqdq wrote: post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That number is 2. Ellison's dad was known to be friendly with Gensler when they were on the faculty in MIT's economics department together.

Quoted post unavailable.

You seem to have some serious mental issues. I recommend therapy.

Re: SBF Arrested by Bahamian Authorities

#836

Post by singleshot_ »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #615
singleshot_ wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not correct. Plenty of would-be defendants take deals to testify. Negotiating a deal after you testify is a ridiculous idea and if it has ever happened once, I would love to hear the story.

She is getting the leniency from the sentencing reform act of 1984 which is predicated on cooperation. No way prosecutors have given her a damn thing. Yes, many cases use snitches because that is the only way to win the case, but it is fraught with peril because of the obvious incentive to lie. Prosecutors avoid deals, and sentencing guidelines already provide for leniency for cooperation. When it is all over, they m…

Out of perhaps an over abundance of curiosity, what would be your take on, say, Massachusetts Rules of Evidence Section 1104? What sorts of things do you think Massachusetts would promise a witness?

Re: SBF Arrested by Bahamian Authorities

#837

Post by dragonwriter »

RC_ITR wrote: post #679
dmix wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She was spotted in NYC with another Alameda employee too. Maybe the Alameda execs are trying to say they just made irresponsible gambles (like a shitty Wall St investor) but SBF is the one who secretly covered the massive losses with FTX customer assets without telling the public and was responsible for the "dual accounting" issue where deposits were counted twice. Among all the other things that they did wrong. Or m…

> Maybe the Alameda execs are trying to say they just made irresponsible gambles (like a shitty Wall St investor) but SBF is the one who secretly covered the massive losses with FTX customer assets without telling the public and was responsible for the "dual accounting" issue where deposits were counted twice. Among all the other things that they did wrong. Here’s the crazy thing. Maybe they pierce the veil and say t…

> Maybe they pierce the veil and say the two companies acted as one, but hedge funds fail all the time.

“Piercing the veil” is a term of art for holding shareholders accountable for corporate liabilities notwithstanding the civil liability shield usually provided by the corporate form.

Holding coconspirators accountable for their role in a criminal conspiracy doesn’t have a special name because it is routine rather than exceptional.

Re: SBF Arrested by Bahamian Authorities

#838

Post by dragonwriter »

mbreese wrote: post #817
iudqnolq wrote: post #795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where would they have gotten the full records? Or been able to know where to look in the records? Bankruptcy procedings. Subpoenas. The standard ways the FBI gets records from regular companies run by people who aren't criminals and don't want to become one (the current CEO is a regular business person).

All of that takes time. Subpoenas can be fought. Bankruptcy cases take time, and I’m not sure that prosecutors would get unfettered access to bankruptcy filings (unless/until the presiding judge thought it was relevant). But either way, these things take more time than what has passed thus far. I’m not saying that a case couldn’t have been made without an internal informant — just that it happening so quickly makes m…

> Subpoenas can be fought.

They can be, but they don’t have to be, and the current management doesn’t seem interested in protecting SBF or the others formerly responsible for running the FTX network of companies.

Re: SBF Arrested by Bahamian Authorities

#839

Post by HDThoreaun »

Alupis wrote: post #832
HDThoreaun wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress has the power to charge people with crimes. If Sam wants to testify that’s his choice, but he can’t be forced to

We're talking about two different things SBF was going to testify. He was going to do it remotely. My issue is remotely was not an option before the pandemic. It was allowed during the pandemic for good reason, but now that reason doesn't exist anymore. Therefore, remote testifying should not be allowed anymore either...

So if someone says "I'll only testify remotely" congress should refuse?

Re: SBF Arrested by Bahamian Authorities

#840

Post by dragonwriter »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #728
dereg wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clear Caroline Ellison has turned against him. Stephanie Avakian, former SEC enforcement chief, is representing her in NY. I'm guessing they wouldn't have been able to file charges this quickly without Caroline becoming a cooperating witness.

If the charges include manipulating the prices of TerraUSD and Luna earlier in the year - that ironically probably caused the FTX implosion, it's hard how to see Caroline Ellison as head of Alameda wasn't heavily involved in major criminal activities. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/07/business/ftx-sbf-crypto-m... Getting one of two culpable people to testify against the other and let them off the hook seems a dreadf…

> Getting one of two culpable people to testify against the other and let them off the hook seems a dreadfully lazy approach to prosecution.

You think there are only took culpable parties here?

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