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What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

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Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#831

Post by Khaine »

nsxwolf wrote: post #456

I shut my mouth at work and go along with this stuff because I have no choice. I have a family to take care of. I've accepted this. But man, why do they always throw in the line about striving to make the workplace a "diverse and inclusive culture where everyone can bring their full and authentic self"? Everyone knows that's a goddamn lie. I almost want to cry when I read that - it makes me so angry. I haven't been a…

I know the feeling. At my work, the leader has started calling us a family, and that we should be a family and treat each other like family and bring our authentic selves to work. I'm not a leader, I'm a mother to 2 children, a daughter to an immigrant blah blah blah.

Fuck off with that bullshit.

Doesn't anyone know what it means to be a professional any more? I don't care about your beliefs, as long as you come to work and do your fucking job, and be respectful to those around you. How fucking hard is that?

Apparently too hard in the 21st century for so many.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#832

Post by treeman79 »

paperwasp42 wrote: post #565
omginternets wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relatedly: I cannot defend the kind of "diversity" that would rather hire a rich brahmin than an inner-city American kid in need of a leg-up, just to fulfill some backwards skin-color quota. It's obscene, and insulting to all parties involved. I also worry that this nonsense will erode support for the kind of diversity I do defend, or worse, prompt some kind of revanchist backlash against visible minorities in genera…

> I also worry that this nonsense will erode support for the kind of diversity I do defend, or worse, prompt some kind of revanchist backlash against visible minorities in general. As a women in tech, I am feeling the backlash. I have seen a huge increase in the amount of skepticism of my abilities that I face from people who haven't worked with me before. And the worst part of it is that there's actually logic behin…

Had a few times in the last 10 years. Where I was pushed very hard to hire someone either completely unqualified, or in we we simply didn’t need.

Like being told to hire a bash programmer for a database admin position. Because person was trans.

Thinking back on if. I’ve never had a regular white woman pushed on me.

I’ve hired woman before. But that was because they were qualified.

Now I’m considered evil for looking at merit.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#833

Post by raxxorraxor »

PKop wrote: post #481
Dig1t wrote: post #382

I work at a different FAANG and it seems like more and more the only news that we get from corporate is related to DEI. Also a lot of hiring details are now hidden from ICs. It used to be that you would be apart of the interview panel as an interviewer and then you would get together with your team afterwards and everyone on the team would vote yes/no and that would pretty much be it. Now it’s made by a manager elsew…

>We used to argue for equality, a level playing field, for all Think of how impossibly naive and utopian this is though, and I don't mean to personally attack just to condemn the idea this is possible in any way whatsoever. Is it possible economically? How about resource wise, or geographically can we all possess equal territory? How about military power? How about physical attributes such as height or beauty? How ab…

Impossible and naive is fighting racism with racism. Making everything equal is a perfectly paved route to totalitarianism by now. Did you read at least one book in your life? Sorry for the accusation here, but if you think of yourself to be able to determine what is just or unjust for others, you need to put some more cards on the table. And it certainly isn't simple.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#834

Post by datavirtue »

telltruth wrote: post #642
comex wrote: post #132

> You might imagine this policy doesn’t bias the hiring process, since managers are still free to choose who to hire after interviewing the diverse candidates. But because of the number of applicants, most are rejected based on their resumes. Imagine diversity candidates are 1% of the applicants but 15% of those interviewed. This gives those candidates opportunities to do well in interviews that their peers with simi…

Managers are NOT free to choose who to hire. When you get headcount, they tell you to make sure not to sacrifice quality and, also in same breath, they tell you that you have no career paths if you don't make your DEI numbers. If there are no actual competent candidates in your field who also happens to be diverse, what would you do? Everyone from CEO to line managers in all major big techs are now have DEI target th…

"So, they constantly badger their underlings to make their numbers."

Lazy, incompetent Fucks.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#835

Post by wafflestomp »

abigail95 wrote: post #599

The civil rights act, as written makes this form of discrimination illegal. However the supreme court undid this in United Steelworkers v Weber. I do not understand how Americans find it acceptable that you can vote for people, they can pass clear statutory language that says you cannot discriminate and then SCOTUS can come along, and read the complete opposite meaning into the statute.

The dissent’s argument - “Were Congress to act today specifically to prohibit the type of racial discrimination suffered by Weber, it would be hard pressed to draft language better tailored to the task than that found in § 703(d) of Title VII:”

Is pretty spot on.

SCOTUS needs to revisit this issue. Or congress needs to revise the Civil Rights act to correct the wording cited by the Supreme Court majority on their opinion.

Their argument is that the statue states that it’s not “required”, but doesn’t state “required, or allowed”, thus suggesting that congress intended to allow this racial based decisions. And yet Congress included 703(d).

Absurd court case which is the source of this ongoing insanity.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#836

Post by lenocinor »

logicalmonster wrote: post #2

According to the Microsoft 2021 Annual Diversity And Inclusion report, 34.9% of employees identified as Asian in the US, far exceeding their overall representation in the US population. Why are Asians doing so well? Why can't we replicate this for other groups? And doesn't trying to hire more of other races imply that mathematically speaking, fewer Asians must be hired and promoted to achieve greater equality? Please…

For black people, at least, they were enslaved in the US in much larger numbers than any other ethnic group. This is bound to hurt their opportunities relative to other ethnic groups, among many other problems.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#837

Post by hbrn »

feoren wrote: post #747
hbrn wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if your hiring funnel doesn't represent the general population then it is biased So 0.1% of engineers in the funnel should be Amish and 18% should be younger than 14. There might be a flaw in your logic. Jokes aside, this is maliciously reductive. There's too many factors contributing to the funnel (location, sourcing channels, employer, job preference, hiring market state) that makes predictions about funnel virtu…

"we" is clearly referring to the history of the U.S., the history which has led to you having a cushy, high-paying desk job doing whatever you do, and which has led to an enormous under-representation of black people in the workplace. You don't get to ignore the history that has led to the life you currently live just because Genghis Khan burned down your (great)^30th ancestor's village. It has nothing to do with tha…

> history which has led to you having a cushy, high-paying desk job doing whatever you do

So when a white person gets a high-paying job, it's because of history of slavery. If a black person gets a high-paying job, it's because they worked hard. Did I get that right?

No wonder Trump got elected when this is the agenda.

> You don't get to ignore the history that has led to the life you currently live just because Genghis Khan burned down your (great)^30th ancestor's village. It has nothing to do with that.

So Genghis Khan has nothing to do with that. But slavery has everything to do with that. Is there a threshold I'm not aware of? How far in the past we have to look at to be able to claim "event X led to event Y".

Lots of Jews ended up in US during World War 2, and now their grandkids are doing quite well. Should they be thanking Hitler because he is the "history that has led to the life they currently live"?

> Do you believe in some sort of original sin handed down by your ancestors?

Obviously I don't, but that's what this person implied.

> You're making some seriously insane judgements based on a person's ancestry.

When I speak your language, I sound insane. Good.

> Hiring from a limited pool of candidates is sub-optimal

To me "optimal" is the minimum amount of effort that leads to maximum results. E.g. if you get enough resumes by posting a job on your website you don't need to put extra effort to find more candidates. I'm curious to hear what's your definition. I suspect it requires augmenting math with morals.

Finally, here's a couple of questions for you to think about:

1. How should countries with homogenous skin color deal with history of slavery?

2. Should we exclude Nigerian Americans from DIE / affirmative action policies, because they are doing better than average American?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#838

Post by thegrimmest »

ParetoOptimal wrote: post #799
thegrimmest wrote: post #791

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

The grandparent post literally linked to a write up about a Harvard study showing that a two parent family is the biggest predictor for economic mobility. Other studies have shown that time spent studying (not race, not household wealth) is the biggest predictor of SAT scores and thereby university admission.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#839

Post by fsniper »

peter422 wrote: post #247
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can flip the script and ask why you should apply rules based on the aggregate despite obvious counterexamples. White boonies kid isn't happy to be excluded over the fact they are white, either. Point being this whole strive for 'ultimate equality' is going to create victims in its fanatical wake. No perfect method exists and no one wants to be on the losing end. But it is easier for those in a position of affluen…

So we throw up our hands and perpetuate the obviously unjust status quo?

No, you go and fix the social inequalities and trickle that up. You can't trickle down equality by introducing more "positive" inequality

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#840

Post by ParetoOptimal »

datavirtue wrote: post #829
ParetoOptimal wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is racist, but it's not the same kind of racist backed by 200 plus years of systematic oppression.

Oh, it's a different kind of racism. Such a relief.

Not a relief, but that difference means one is a more pressing issue than the other. In the same way someone with chest pains in the ER goes back before someone with non-critical respiratory issues.
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