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Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

nature.com

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Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#831

Post by maceurt »

colordrops wrote: post #10

The article is discussing the media and government being intentionally vague or even misinformative because they don't trust the public, but it backfires and causes more distrust. The flip side that wasn't discussed is the belittling and censoring of voices that were skeptical of the narratives, which engendered even more distrust. Their strategy of information control backfired, and they doubled down. Now we've got…

Never taking the vaccine and I suggest everyone else not to either. It has not gone through any of the rigorous scientific studies that any other required vaccine in modern US history had to go through. And its about time people stopped voting and started taking real action against the blatant disregard for the Constitution and the American people that this Government has. We are the ones should be holding our government accountable, and we have failed because we are too afraid of Violence. And lets be clear when a person breaks a law the police officer uses adequate force to arrest him and if he keeps resisting then it can sometimes be violent force. Its legal and righteous. People wonder why the Jewish people didn't stand and fight against Hitler when they had the chance? They were frogs in boiling water unable to know they were dead before it was too late, and right now the melting pot of our country is getting mighty warm.

Our ancestors fought and died for the rights we have given up because our refusal to go into the streets and fight. Enough talk, go out there and take back what is yours. If you tolerate injustice by refusing to take action you are the same as the one who would be applying that injustice. The only way for us to take back our rights is for everyone to fight, you want to talk about duty with vaccine? You have a duty for your countryman to stand with him to defend the rights you deserve, need, and cherish. Whether you care or not is irrelevant, because you not fighting damns everybody else who does since this War requires every human who calls themselves an American. Get your ass in the streets right now and fight. Not a figure of speech, march down your city and tear down anything and everything that infringes on your rights. And for the people who I know are thinking about the repercussions or social stigma, then fuck you. Our rights are worth every single ounce of pain and suffering a human could be inflicted with. Without Rights our Life is meaningless.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#832

Post by krainboltgreene »

gojomo wrote: post #692
krainboltgreene wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why aren't the vax campaigns leading with Trump's action – and his repeated verbal endorsement of choosing to get vaxed – to overcome resistance in his followers? If you go to trump community sites you'll find out that: 1. They think he's an idiot for taking the vax 2. They think he was threatened to taking it 3. He didn't really take it

Interesting. But if they're that persistently delusional, even when Trump's actions & words are contrary to their beliefs, are their actions "entirely due" to Trump? The phenomena you describe suggest it's bigger & deeper than any devotion given him. (Is it even fair to call them "Trump community sites" at that point?)

It's at least internally consistent. Many republican wealthy christians seemingly ignore the whole "camel through the head of a needle" bit.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#833

Post by skyde »

mmmpop wrote: post #75
skyde wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the general public are not the one that decide who get a Phd or MD the expert are the one doing it. It make sense that the expert don't trust the general public with health decision. If you are not convinced just head over to https://www.youtube.com/c/ChubbyemuGames/videos

Maybe the general public should spend more time electing MDs and PhDs to run the government then? Instead we get bullshitters and grifters who defer to life-long bureaucrats with an MD of a PhD who suck-up to the right people to get the job, regardless of their actual competence. People tend to mistrust government "experts" because the feeling is that if they were better at their jobs, they'd obviously be in the priv…

why do we need Phd and MD "inside" the government ? Instead the government can just ask normal PHd and MD working for the private sector or for university for their opinion.

I 100% understand why people dont trust an MD which is affiliated with a specific Political Party. If you want expert to be neutral (no political) they can't be part of the government.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#834

Post by eightysixfour »

eightysixfour wrote: post #764
thepasswordis wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine after the Chernobyl disaster somebody insisting that the reactor didn’t melt down, but in fact there was a giant earthquake that opened a fissure in the ground and shot a bunch of radioactive rocks all over the town, and that that then triggered a volcano which shot radioactive dust all over Europe. At some point: the reactor in the nuclear power plant next to Pripyat is the source and alternative explanation…

There is possibly a form of survivorship bias here - it is likely that the WIV became the world leader in coronavirus research because it met the criteria for a BSL4 lab and is within a one to two day driving distance of places where previous coronavirus outbreaks started. In some ways it is unsurprising that it would be near the epicenter of an outbreak. I am not stating that it did not escape from the lab, just tha…

For anyone who comes to look at these conversations at a later date, the most recent information about work by Peter Daszak has shifted my opinion. I find it to be significantly more likely that it was a lab leak following the new evidence.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#835

Post by mike00632 »

clairity wrote: post #776
mike00632 wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy how you brush aside the elderly and "unhealthy" as people who can die without your consideration and you think their deaths only 'mess up' the numbers. They are treated like an undesirable population whose deaths shouldn't be taken into account. Shouldn't we vaccinate, wear masks and social distance if only to help the elderly and "unhealthy"?

> ‘Shouldn't we vaccinate, wear masks and social distance if only to help the elderly and "unhealthy"?’ you’re nakedly appealing to emotion here, and baiting for an inflexible, naïve answer. that’s a despicable kind of rhetorical move that doesn’t serve to push our collective understanding forward, but rather attempts to coerce and strives for conformity. it’s diametrically opposed to the point made by the linked nat…

You can't think of a non-emotional, logical objection to millions of people dying pointlessly? Do we need to say something like "the economy will go down" to get you on board?

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#836

Post by mike00632 »

nobody9999 wrote: post #797
mike00632 wrote: post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should really cite something to back up your claim that non-N95 masks don't help.

>You should really cite something to back up your claim that non-N95 masks don't help. I suspect that depends on what someone means by the word "help." N-95 masks have filters that (IIUC) are fine enough to block most SARS-Cov2 containing droplets from being inhaled. Other masks do not have such filters. However, that's not the rationale for encouraging widespread masking. Since many COVID infections are asymptomatic…

> that argument is specious

You should really cite something to back up your claim that non-N95 masks don't help.

Re: Covid lesson: trust the public with hard truths

#837

Post by nobody9999 »

mike00632 wrote: post #836
nobody9999 wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You should really cite something to back up your claim that non-N95 masks don't help. I suspect that depends on what someone means by the word "help." N-95 masks have filters that (IIUC) are fine enough to block most SARS-Cov2 containing droplets from being inhaled. Other masks do not have such filters. However, that's not the rationale for encouraging widespread masking. Since many COVID infections are asymptomatic…

> that argument is specious You should really cite something to back up your claim that non-N95 masks don't help.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, eh?

I suggest you go back and re-read what I actually wrote.

Because you apparently weren't able to retain the stuff from the beginning and middle of my comment by the time you got to the end, or just read the last sentence, I'm not so sure you'll be able to figure it out.

As such, I'll explain. And I'll use small words so you'll be sure to understand.

If you're a selfish piece of shit and only care about yourself, then only N95 masks are useful.

However, if you're a normal, decent human being, you understand that non-N95 masks help to keep you from infecting others. What's more, if enough of us do so, non-N95 masks can absolutely help.

I also want to take this opportunity to tell you to fuck off. Have a nice day!

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