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Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

wired.com

831–840 of 964 posts

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that webpage, they say that their bias is between classical liberalism and centrism. Now, what is a classically liberal bias, concretely, as far as international affairs are concerned?

Free trade and non-interventionism.

Then you're already misjudging the bias, the Economist supported interventionist in Syria, Libya, Iraq, and even soft intervention in Bolivia. It's as interventionist as most.

As far as free trade, that's difficult to apply to most situations.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#832

I don't understand this fetishism with centrism and all opinions being treated equally, and that having made up your mind on an issue is necessarily wrong. When it comes to an issue like, say, climate change, I spent years reading the blogosphere, reading blogs like WUWT and whatever Judith Curry would come up with, and then the rebuttals, sometimes waiting years for the science to come out. For any issue around clim…

I listened to and contributed to NPR for years, long before Trump, Hillary , or Obama were things. I watch Fox news also. When you distinguish between news and opinion shows, Fox is at least as good as CNN/MSNBC/ABC/CBS. When you watch a cropped clip, then the full clip, and the entire circumstances change that should be a sign. Notice the Wired example mentioned kids in a TN classroom, and it was the liberal kids th…

“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary” -- Karl Marx

The rest of what you wrote about climate change comes under Brandolini's law.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#833
post #8

I tried this experiment: read nytimes, wapo, fox, national review and politico. I wanted to get different perspectives. However, I encountered a bunch of issues: They dont talk about or even cover the same things, which makes it hard to compare liberal vs conservative perspectives. This is the most common form of bias I've come across. In the rare case they do cover the same thing, many articles either simply do not…

This site is great for trying to get different takes https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news I used to do what you did(just read a bunch of major publications from differing political orientations) but also found issue with not being able to compare different perspectives easily.

I'm a bit disappointed that outlets like NTY, or Associated Press for cryin out loud, are branded as "Left". Disappointing that actual Left-wing discourse is so outside currently acceptable Overton window.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is true, but also underlines the very point the article was making. In the United States, Christianity is the default. Characters are typically only identified if the stray from the default But Christianity isn’t the default, secular is the default. When there are identifiably Christian characters, they are often some cringey stereotype (the religious clique in “Easy A”, for example). See also the link about “…

> But Christianity isn’t the default, secular is the default. Says whom? Not-strongly-denominational non-to-weakly (note the “a”; not a typo for “weekly”) practicing Christian, or similarly weakly-attached Jewish, seems to be the norm, outside of showed focussing on a distinct and different subculture. > When there are identifiably Christian characters, they are often some cringey stereotype I don't think that's real…

> Says whom?

I suspect just about every avid connoisseur of American media who isn’t out to peddle a narrative, but I didn’t do a survey at our last quarterly meeting so I can’t tell for sure. :)

> Not-strongly-denominational non-to-weakly (note the “a”; not a typo for “weekly”) practicing Christian, or similarly weakly-attached Jewish, seems to be the norm, outside of showed focussing on a distinct and different subculture.

Of the characters who are identifiably religious I could agree that Christians and Jews are a majority, but I strongly suspect that they outnumber irreligious characters.

Consider that the mainstay of virtually all pop culture are drugs, alcohol, and premarital sex, most or all of which are embraced by the “normal” characters but taboo among American Christians. When a character is identifiably Christian, they are almost always portrayed as judgmental of those things, which is to say they contrast from the “normal” characters. The default has to be some identity which jives with the popular culture, and since Christian ethos are incompatible with the bread and butter of pop culture, I am certain that the default is not Christian.

> I don't think that's really all that much more true than other identities

It seems to be different for the irreligious identities. Pop culture doesn’t rarely leans on cliches to identify a character that doesn’t believe, because it doesn’t need to, they are the default. But yes, I agree that for other identities, writers need to do something to indicate the identity and per Sturgeon’s Law (TIL, thanks) most of that is lazy stereotyping.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#835
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google News is a dumpster fire. They include Sputnik and other govt propaganda sites from oppressive regimes.

It's gotten significantly worse over time. Are there better alternatives that collate news, by topic, from multiple sources? Newsvoice was an app that tried to crowdsource that job instead of using algorithms. It very quickly became an alt-right cesspool, presumably because those are the same people who feel disenfranchised by FAKE NEWS LIBERAL MEDIA and so flock to alternative communities.

I just use Feedly and select sources that I trust. There's no other way to do it.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They dont talk about or even cover the same things Yeah, this is a key thing to realize. People seem to think that Fox News, for example, just trots out falsehoods all the time, but if you skim the news, I'd say very little is actually factually incorrect. It's more about the story selection, who they choose to interview to get the quote, how they contextualize (or don't) statistics, etc. But once you realize that,…

Fox New's actual news coverage is mostly truthful. But a huge amount of their airtime is opinion pieces and media personalities who spout BS all day. Tucker Carlson is probably the most notorious. Plus they have Republican politicians calling in and showing up constantly, and they're allowed to say whatever they want.

people can hate on tucker all day long, as they attacked rush and oreilly before him, but tucker brings up issues that resonate in red america. he does a pretty fair job, which is evidenced by how trivial the criticism against him is.

if people are confused about what red america thinks, they would be well served to look at Breitbart, tucker, and independent conservative outlets to see how they frame the discussion. I'm always amazed at how people on the left don't really see what the right is going on about.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#837
post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the typical bait to attack centrism: moral coercion by framing an issue so that "NO" can never be an answer. Centrism doesn't mean indifference regarding any topic, nor does it mean "meet in the middle" on any topic.

So centrism means everything and nothing at once.

Pretty much, yes. What it means depends on context, the topic at hand, and the position of the person regarding the matter:

- Indifference - Do care, yet reject both extremer view points on left and right - Studied topic deeply and actually concluded middle ground is the best fit - Sees status quo as valid

It could mean any of these things. Therefore, it's inaccurate to conclude anything on centrists as if they are a well defined group.

Even the term centrist itself is inaccurate, as very few people would have a fully centrist view on every single topic imaginable.

Coercing somebody with a centrist view into a hard choice under the threat that otherwise you approve the "murdering of children" or some other awful consequence, is plain idiotic. It's a polarization tactic: friend or foe.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#838
post #688
post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta comment: I'm not allowed to vote specifically on this comment. I can vote on its parent and children. Does anyone know why that might be the case?

It's probably to prevent pointless tit-for-tat downvotes from replies. eg: 1. user A makes a comment 2. user B downvotes user A for disagreeing with him, makes a reply saying why user A's wrong 3. user A sees the downvote (or not), downvotes user B for disagreeing with him, makes a reply saying why user B's wrong continue ad infinitum.

I'm not the parent of this

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#839
post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christmas is a very secular holiday. There is still mass, but in American culture the religious aspect of Christmas is minuscule in comparison to the secular and consumerism aspects. "Most of the songs are very religious" is just not true for most mainstream Americans. For most Americans Christmas is about family, Santa (Coke's version), Reindeers, Elves, Trees, and Gifts. And then local or family traditions which ma…

> Santa (Coke's version) “The image of Santa Claus as a jolly large man in a red-and-white suit was the standard long before Coca-Cola co-opted it for their advertising.” https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-claus-that-refreshes/

That only indicates that Christmas was secularized long before Coke borrowed the Santa imagery.

Re: Some Americans are breaking out of political echo chambers

#840
post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, just maybe, we should stop going out of our way to provide platforms to influential fraudsters and lunatics?

Yes, let's silence everyone who doesn't share our view and shame everyone who follows him, I'm sure that's a great strategy. For creating extremists, that is. Keep an open dialogue and dismantle them. If you can't do that, maybe they have something worth listening to.

"any publicity is good publicity as long as they spell your name right"
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