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George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

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Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#831

Post by dannypgh »

SkyBelow wrote: post #683
cies wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To most of these I'd say: make 'm offenses not crimes. As I see it: crimes make it punishable by jail time, offenses not.

But doesn't this then introduce the problems with fines? They can be disproportionate and can also be viewed as a tax. Making them proportionate has other issues, such as effectively making it a non-punishment for some people who can optimize around it (people working under the table) and can easily lead to situations where corporations can structure themselves so they don't have to pay any significant fine with caug…

I agree that fines are not ideal, and I think these are interesting discussions we need to be having to think of better solutions, but I also want to be clear that fines are several orders of magnitude better than jailing people (and I think it goes without saying, even more orders of magnitude better than summary execution).

I do think there's potential for more mandated community service as a response to antisocial behavior. Structure it so people don't have to miss work.

A very large amount of the crimes we prosecute people for are either drug crimes or crimes because of poverty/economic inequality, and these are best addressed with public health and investment.

Even some of the remaining economic crimes - like selling untaxed cigarettes (what Eric Garner was killed for) if they still happen probably don't need public enforcement. Give those that pay the taxes standing to sue those who don't pay the taxes. If those who are paying it aren't bothered enough to pay for enforcement, I don't see why others should be.

Most of what we do in the name of policing is deal with problems that we'd be better off preventing or dealing with by someone other than a man with a gun. This is the low hanging fruit we should pursue immediately, and when we see what's left the opportunities and alternatives for further improvement should become clearer.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#832

Post by dannypgh »

vlads_ wrote: post #777
TeaDrunk wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still correct the vast majority of the protests are peaceful.

And the vast majority of policemen are not beating people up.

All 57 members of Buffalo's emergency response unit resigned in protest of disciplinary actions taken against the men who shoved a 75 year old man and then walked over his body while he bled from the ear. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/05/buffalo-off...

It's not at all obvious to me that the majority of policemen don't support the abuses, even if they aren't all getting their hands dirty.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#834

Post by sfj »

deathgrips wrote: post #744
WillPostForFood wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've never seen an example of riots breaking out in a city before police instigate violence with rubber bullets and tear gas. LA Riots in 1992. Police pulled out to avoid conflict and it resulted in looting and burning for days until the National Guard showed up.

You don't think police instigated violence when they killed Rodney King?

>I've never seen an example of riots breaking out in a city before police instigate violence with rubber bullets and tear gas. (emphasis mine)

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#836

Post by zaarn »

socraticmethod wrote: post #740
zaarn wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German police is trained to deescalate if possible and for riot or protest control, use of lethal weaponry is rarely authorized if riot control is necessary at all. Water cannons can still hurt people but they're massively less lethal than any type of bean bag rounds or rubber bullets. Notably, the German police is also trained for much longer, three to four years at minimum. They're trained with guns to aim for part…

" They're trained with guns to aim for parts of the body that make it less likely to kill a target instantly or quickly and instead incapacitates them (of course, with a gun you can never know but you can alter the odds) " This is the third time I've read this in the comments but I can't seem to find any info on "shoot to incapacitate" online. I'm not doubting it, I'm just looking to collect information regarding the…

" rel="nofollow">https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffengebrauch_der_Polizei_in_... This page is a good intro if you use Google Translate. The main keyword is "Final and Fatal Shot" (Finaler Rettungsschuss) which is what the police is trained for to only use as a last resort and gets schooled on when it's legally acceptable.

" rel="nofollow">https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finaler_Rettungsschuss> Details this a bit better; most shots fired by the german police aim to incapacitate an opponent or are fired in a perceived or real emergency situation, the prevention of crimes and prevention of getaway.

The difference between the mentioned cases and the "final and fatal shot" is that the later is used by the police officer with the express and only intent to kill. There are various requirements, mainly that it must be the only viable way to prevent lethal or extensive harm to others.

Please note that the english pages are not as extensive or talk about the US situation so they're less useful.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#837

Post by mmsimanga »

pjc50 wrote: post #716
supportlocal4h wrote: post #522

When one 737 Max crashed, some pointed the finger at the pilots. When a second one crashed, the focus quickly shifted. It is a common attitude in aviation that even pilot error is really a systems fault. Perhaps opposing buttons are too close together, or some control requires attention to be diverted at the wrong time, or pilots are allowed to fly too many hours without adequate rest, or plenty of other things that…

US police-caused deaths seem to run at the rate of several airliner's worth of people a year. The problem seems to be the exact opposite of a safety culture: there is no systematic review of what happens, what factors led up to it, what could have been done differently. The police routinely lie about events with no consequences, even when contradicted by video or other evidence. We cannot even get the police to agree…

I don't mean to be snarky but what police are doing is what humans everywhere do. Network guys always deny it is the network causing the the issue. DBA? It is a hard problem to solve.

Interestingly I was having a conversation about police before George Floyd. I had wondered whether policing should be one of those rotational civic duties. All able bodied people spend some time being a policeman. I think spending years only being called when things go bad makes police less sensitive.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#838

Post by hef19898 »

zaarn wrote: post #836
socraticmethod wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" They're trained with guns to aim for parts of the body that make it less likely to kill a target instantly or quickly and instead incapacitates them (of course, with a gun you can never know but you can alter the odds) " This is the third time I've read this in the comments but I can't seem to find any info on "shoot to incapacitate" online. I'm not doubting it, I'm just looking to collect information regarding the…

" rel="nofollow">https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffengebrauch_der_Polizei_in_... This page is a good intro if you use Google Translate. The main keyword is "Final and Fatal Shot" (Finaler Rettungsschuss) which is what the police is trained for to only use as a last resort and gets schooled on when it's legally acceptable. " rel="nofollow">https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finaler_Rettungsschuss> Details this a bit better…

Thak you! That was the one I had in mind!

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#839

Post by dang »

chillwaves wrote: post #184
known wrote: post #156

Since 45% of America is uninhabited it's better to give African-Americans a Separate Country https://archive.vn/YXDP8

How will you tell who is sufficiently white or black enough to live in each part of the country? Also very disappointing to see openly white supremacist posts on HN. Shameful.

Based on past posts, I don't think it's white supremacism. I know it seems that way, but I think what's happening is the international confusion I wrote about here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23438403.

That of course does not make the comment acceptable.

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