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SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

nasa.gov

831–839 of 839 posts

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#831

Before aiming to Mars, I would consider crowfunding two free tickets for a trip on the Falcon to a couple high profile flat earthers.

That assumes they'd be honest about it. They would arguably have more to gain by accepting the free tickets, then claiming it was all a hoax, further fueling FE.

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#832

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Asteroid mining is pointless for Earth-based industry. There's more of everything on Earth and it's orders of magnitude closer to processing and manufacturing infrastructure. The ISS in Earth orbit cost billions of dollars and was only possible because the Space Shuttle was an awesome utility vehicle that could act as an orbital work platform. Putting even trivial ore processing and refining infrastructure in a place…

I would like to take issue with your claim that it's closer to processing and manufacturing infrastructure. If expressed in km that is correct. It gets really interesting once you express it in Delta V. It gets more interesting yet when you take into account things like linear accelerators which can launch things for pennies. They're not practical on earth, but somewhat practical on the moon. They might also be usabl…

> It gets really interesting once you express it in Delta V.

I mean, it does depend on how much time you're willing to spend. Yeah, the dV required to move from one asteroid to another is pretty tiny, but typical orbit phasing maneuvers like that typically take a long time to execute, especially in the scale of the asteroid belt (you gotta orbit all the way around the Sun).

That said, I feel like (but haven't validated mathematically or in e.g. KSP, or found real-life examples) it should be possible to do small phase shifts with radial burns (e.g. inward then outward to "catch up", or outward then inward to let the target do so) without requiring much of a time expenditure, though this would probably entail more fuel.

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#833
post #467
post #443

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Because the tax payer has paid for nearly all of this and the goal was certainly not for some billionaire couple to get into the hundred mile high club.

Yes, the goal was for everybody to get into the club. Billionaires wold just get there faster, for a fee. Similarly like it happened with aviation. Sergey Korolev was pretty comfortable with the idea.

That's a pipedream, the fuel costs (and pollution) alone make that impossible in any sustainable way.

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#834
post #809

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Yup. In fact, there are various stories of people in late 1930s who tried to get the word out to the wider world about what's starting to happen in Germany, and they were generally ignored. The world truly didn't learn about the camps until Nazi Germany was conquered.

Possibly, but the knowledge that the Nazis were engaging in mass murder has been readily available once they declared war on the rest of the Europe and went through with it. You didn't have to wait until discovering some camps to change your notions of them.

That's a bit of revisionist history. It wasn't the age of Twitter. Until the discovery of the camps, this was just a world war. The other side was seen as just a regular enemy (+/- usual war propaganda), not as genocidal maniacs.

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#835

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> perhaps helped by a guy in a VR suit back on earth or in a nearby spaceship. Definitely not "back on earth". Lag is an issue with VR as-is with mere milliseconds of it, and you'd be calling for minutes of latency there. And "in a nearby spaceship" would, definitionally, involve getting humans most of the way there; might as well get them all the way there at that point.

I think it's interesting to explore whether remote-control VR lag can be combated with simulations. If you can simulate the other side well enough, you should be able to manipulate the simulation until you've got a recording that you're satisfied with and then send it. This is kind of how Mars rovers are steered today. Obviously doing this for robots on Earth is tricky and largely pointless, given it's probably easie…

> If you can simulate the other side well enough, you should be able to manipulate the simulation until you've got a recording that you're satisfied with and then send it. This is kind of how Mars rovers are steered today.

True, but that has limitations, right? Meteorite impacts, electromechanical failures, and such still do happen. Plus on Mars there's still dust flurries and such, and then you've got Titan with its "dummy thicc" atmosphere blowing stuff around even harder, though obviously asteroids wouldn't have those issues.

With the Mars rovers we're basically in a position of "well we'll run them as long as we can, but if they get stuck in a rut they're hosed". Spirit and Opportunity would probably still be running and collecting science if we had human crews nearby able to hop over and fix them up.

> The point about the spaceship is not distance related but that building life support structures into everything is quite expensive, whereas building them once in a spaceship and then extending the human presence to all surrounding structures would be a lot cheaper.

Right, but my point there is that "surrounding structures" implies you're basically pretty much there anyway. You don't necessarily need life support structures in the mining equipment itself; you just need some spot for the ship to dock for a sec while the maintenance crews don their spacesuits and do their repairs.

Even if we did build human-habitable areas in those "surrounding structures" (e.g. break rooms, workshops, bunks), as long as there's a supply chain to provide air/water/food (and the first two could likely be extracted from the asteroid itself) I suspect it wouldn't be that much of an additional cost in the grand scheme of things, especially when weighed against the increase in productivity.

Plus, you gotta think on the flip-side, too: would it make sense to haul all those life support structures around on a moving ship? If you're sending crews someplace often enough it seems reasonable to have those on-site and thus not have to haul all that mass with you (then again, depending on the length of the trip such facilities might be necessary anyway).

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#836

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How much of that material needs to come from Earth, though? If we can get that from the Moon, for example, then you wouldn't need nearly as much fuel to get the raw materials into orbit for manufacturing. Then all you need to do is get the finished product to wherever it needs to go (e.g. in an atmospheric entry vehicle, or to some other orbital factory, or to some far out colony, or what have you).

Long term - definitely! But to get space manufacturing started in the short term, lowering the launch costs is the best bet.

Agreed 100%. The more we can lower costs getting from Earth to LEO, the cheaper and faster it'll be to bootstrap that manufacturing infrastructure.

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#837
post #830
post #827

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Don't limit cadence. Just tax transactions, and cadence will limit itself.

I waffle on this one too. Institutions that do HFT have a huge capital cost and pay large fees before they even make their first trade. They also employ programmers, traders, etc. Basically, these taxes are going to need to sum to something really big to dissuade them. Too small, they ignore it. Medium, the market will just consolidate. Large, you'll stop HFT, but at what consequence? The probability of unintended co…

A tiny tax on each order (bid, ask) entry would cut the total volume of orders by a huge factor, cost them only a small fraction of their takings, and probably fund free college for everyone in the US.

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#838
post #758

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This is definitely a hindsight is 20/20 moment. In an age where radio was new, where televisions were even newer, where transcontinental news took hours, days or even weeks to travel, the knowledge that the Nazis were engaging in mass murder was not readily available. When allied troops liberated the concentration camps they filmed everything that they saw because they were concerned that without footage no one would…

Reports about what's happening in concentration camps had been coming to Allied intelligence agencies since 1941 ([1]) but obviously they did not include any video footage, so they were hard to believe. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilecki%27s_Report

Mass Media was also... Not a thing. At least nothing like we understand it to be today.

In hindsight being 20/20 it's hard to comprehend the blurred optics of the past era.

Moreover, the blood libel of WW1 was still a fresh memory, and so many who did hear about Nazi atrocities were skeptical.

The world would be different today if not for the photographic and video evidence.

Re: SpaceX successfully launches two humans into orbit

#839

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So is spacex. It's a dictatorship.

All the people forced to buy contracts with them. All the people forced to work with them. Pure. Tyranny.

No, just internally, where king elon makes decrees from high and you follow or are exiled from the nation of spacex.

It's a private corporation: it's a mini-dictatorship. Basically everything functional in the world is built by one. Could you imagine the department of transportation making a car?

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