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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#831

Post by el_cujo »

cryptica wrote: post #655

It's concerning that Cloudflare is monetizing on these disasters by publishing this article and promoting it on HN; in a way, they're using these crimes as an opportunity to improve their brand image. Cloudflare should have dealt with this privately; this matter is between Cloudflare and 8chan - They were always able to choose who they want and don't want to do business with. They were very happy to take the money wh…

I think talking about it openly was the right thing to do. People are going to rag on them for this decision (though I assume most will understand) and you have more control over the message if you get out there first rather than waiting to comment til there's a backlash. Maybe it's just lipservice, but I actually liked a lot of what they said in the post about it being obvious 8chan had to go, but that they want to have more objective policies in place rather than deciding who is bad enough to drop on a whim. They made it pretty clear they don't intend to be the internet content police force and that they don't even think this will stop 8chan from existing, so it's not like they were bragging about doing any good really. All-in-all seemed pretty reasonable in my opinion.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#832

Post by FactolSarin »

onli wrote: post #701
toyg wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN. If there is a demand for specific niches, a supply will eventually emerge, like it has for porn.

> TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN If a CDN is necessary to support the site being a public platform that's not a given. This whole "A private company should be able to act like it pleases" that Cloudflare mirrors in their news is an ideological standpoint, not an absolute truth. It's certainly possible to see it differently: If a comp…

Freedom of speech is not unlimited. Different countries set it in different places. In the US there aren't many limits, beyond the old "shouting 'fire!' in a crowded theater" thing. But in Germany you can't deny the holocaust, for instance.

Maybe we as a society need to decide that some things are just beyond the pale. Trying to indoctrinate young people into ideologies of hatred doesn't promote free and open discourse, it shuts it down. Let's just take sites like his off the Internet - nothing of value will be lost.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#833

Post by not_a_cop75 »

CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

It seems like having a known honeypot to capture conversations of would be evil doers would be much better than to further force them underground into the likes of Tor. Who is going to be able to mine conversations for advanced warnings once they are there?

Also, the silencing of dissidents seems like the wrong move in general for all internet companies. The truth can tolerate being harassed, bashed and unliked. What it does not seem to do so well with is a regime that does not tolerate the free flow of ideas.

I'm okay with the very worst people posting on youtube and twitter. Those platforms can require an extra login to determine who is so interested in these videos. The removal of videos on the basis of dislike does not seem to be the solution. I'm not even certain that demonetizing them is the right answer, because even that can create a money trail for police and detectives to follow.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#835

Post by zzzcpan »

So much hypocrisy. When war mongering governments like US, Russia use Cloudflare for war propaganda websites that enable their wars and killings of lots and lots of people it doesn't bother Matthew Prince. Or when websites behind Cloudflare promote and sell lethal weapons that are the actual reason behind mass shootings even being possible, still doesn't bother him. But no, a dissident free speech activist website is somehow necessary to censor and blame for this, how convenient. Gotta love covert government censorship and covert government-corporate partnership.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#836

Post by mempko »

not_a_cop75 wrote: post #833
CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

It seems like having a known honeypot to capture conversations of would be evil doers would be much better than to further force them underground into the likes of Tor. Who is going to be able to mine conversations for advanced warnings once they are there? Also, the silencing of dissidents seems like the wrong move in general for all internet companies. The truth can tolerate being harassed, bashed and unliked. What…

No, but it will be harder for the children to see it. Because a lot of those people there are children (under 18). By increasing the friction, you reduce the audience.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#837

Post by Ajedi32 »

bart_spoon wrote: post #814

I'm not sure I understand what those here rallying in defense of "free speech" are arguing. Free speech has not been violated. The government did not mandate this. As an individual citizen, I am allowed to say whatever I want under the protection of free speech. But I am not entitled to others providing me a platform for my speech. Other people/companies can't be coerced to provide me such a platform. And even if eve…

As has been explained in this thread multiple times now, Free Speech is a principle, not a law. If, for example, someone in North Korea spoke against their government and was executed for it, that'd be a violation of Free Speech. Arguing "but North Korea doesn't have a law protecting people who speak against the government" would be ridiculous.

Similarly, if a person or organization in the United States is silenced because they were deplatformed by a corporate oligarchy, it's ridiculous to argue "the US doesn't have any law which prevents that, so Free Speech has not been violated".

Free Speech has absolutely been impinged by this decision.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#838

Post by kodablah »

> 8chan [...] have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths

Quite the strong and matter-of-fact opinion, stated as accepted fact, about a direct cause here.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#839

Post by Ajedi32 »

yosamino wrote: post #825
Ajedi32 wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flawed comparison. Nothing 8Chan did or possibly could do would result in service disruption to other Cloudflare customers.

No, that's exactly the point. If water distribution worked in the way that utility companies just laid the pipes, connected them to those of other utilites, and otherwise did not care about what sort of water anybody pumped into them, water quality would drop pretty fast. But agreed, I am stretching this example very far now to make "water as a utility" conform to "Internet as a utility" - which maybe goes to show th…

I still don't understand your analogy. How is 8Chan affecting "water quality" in this analogy? They were not harming the quality of service Cloudflare provides to their customers in any way, were they? The same goes for the water company providing service to 8Chan's owner; providing service to 8Chan doesn't affect the quality of service to their other customers.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#840

Post by mieseratte »

mkane848 wrote: post #780
mieseratte wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not a move to get publicity, but cloudfare giving in to public pressure. Well I'm not sure which is worse. Using tragedy for publicity or caving to a mob.

Why do you assume it's only the two options that happen to conform to your narrative?

Why do you reply to a post you find deficient without offering alternative suggestions while simultaneously assuming I'm holding a narrative?

Someone suggested this was an action not of publicity but of mob action, and I merely remarked that I'm not sure which one I find to be worse. Both possibilities concern me.

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