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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#831

Post by Arizhel »

ptaipale wrote: post #808
CWuestefeld wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with modern vechicles is that automatic transmission--still. At around 135,000 those sensors, those plates, that OD unit just start to wear out. ... but when it's the Over Drive unit, or the transmission needs a rebuild ... I don't think OD units are a thing on modern cars anymore. That higher top gear is just going to be another gear inside the transmission. Indeed, on FWD cars with a transaxle, there's…

Yes. I was very confused when I got a rental car in the U.S. in about 2004 and it had a separate switch and yellow indicator light for "OD". In Europe such a thing was so ancient history that I'd never seen one and I had to read the car's handbook to understand what it meant.

I thought the entire reason to have an OD disable switch is for towing.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#832

Post by Arizhel »

donkeyd wrote: post #546
foobarian wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with the current market is that it's next to impossible to determine the quality of a machine. I would gladly pay $3000 for a washer if I could somehow tell that it will be better built, with higher quality metals, inner parts, and overall longer lasting. But it seems that the extra money these days just buys more flashy bells and whistles that just increase the chance of failure. Sadly my strategy has bee…

On a Dutch TV show they calculated that it's better to buy a cheaper washer that breaks down sooner. After it breaks you will buy a new one, which is often more efficient, saving you more money. Also, the quelity in washing results is often negligible.

This doesn't really make sense. There's only so much efficiency to be gained in washing dishes or clothes; we're reaping a lot of gains here in the last 10 years or so because of electronic controls and sensors, compared to the very simple mechanical systems from decades past. But the efficiency over time will be a curve, with diminishing returns. Basic physics dictates that you can only make cleaning things with water so efficient. Maybe eventually we'll go to cleaning things with ultrasonics or something, but for now, if you're swishing fabrics around in a drum with water, or spraying hot water on dirty dishes, you can only make that so efficient. I'm sorry, but replacing a 2016 model dishwasher with a 2018 model dishwasher is not going to net you any significant efficiency gains (though replacing a 1985 model dishwasher certainly will).

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#833

Post by Arizhel »

jansan wrote: post #820
luca_ing wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and weigh around 100kg Yep. I once carried a Miele washing machine up 3 flights of stairs with a friend. We thought we were about to die. Later I looked up the specs in the manual: its counterweight weighs 120kg :´-( The machine is (I think) around 30 years old, still going strong.

IMHO the most frustrating part about moving is having to carry stuff like dumbbells, counterweights etc, because they have only purpose: Being as heavy as possible.

With the counterweights, it'd be nice if it was easy to open up the machine and take the counterweight out. This would make it much easier to move a heavy machine up stairs.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#834

Post by sqeaky »

platz wrote: post #803
sqeaky wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in some markets it has worked great. My cheap car, a Hyundai Elantra is at just about 100,000 and I have not had to replace any major components. Back in the 80s and 90s Ford and Chevy were making real junk that wouldn't last long, and people that wanted better and started buying Toyota, Honda and Hyundai. If my Elantra is anything like my aunt's it will last until I wreck it. Hers was wrecked when another dr…

Sure some markets like autos are like as you say. Many others, much less so.

I think all markets follow that logic.

I used "if" and not all markets follow the same path of that if statement. That just means consumers didn't get fed up enough in the markets going one way in that if.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#835

Post by Arizhel »

hx87 wrote: post #805
mherrmann wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it should be that way with cars. Just include a screen and some buttons, then let people connect their smart phones.

On a similar note, I've always wondered why when MP3 players started to become popular in the late 90s and early 2000s but cars were still stuck in the tape/CD stage, no car offered a stripped down entertainment system with just speakers, amplifier, and a 3.5mm jack.

Because way too many buyers would be put off by that and not buy the car. Sure, some young technically-inclined people would have liked that option at the time, but most buyers would not have.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#836

Post by gejjaxxita »

mindslight wrote: post #793
crazygringo wrote: post #760

But they're cheaper, by something like 75% (and even more when you take energy efficiency into account). [1] For people who move every few years, whose requirements change (from solo to 4-person family), and so on, the current situation is pretty ideal. Spend less money, change models more frequently to fit your changing needs, and often it's even cheaper to buy a new one than to get it fixed -- which for consumers i…

Less expensive can be desirable. And perhaps the market could even find an equilibrium where some people would pay a bit more for appliances to be capital goods with longevity and serviceability and others would prefer the cell phone model. But instead, when a consumer good becomes less expensive, our federal reserve overlords increase inflation to make sure most everybody is still being "encouraged" to work full tim…

Household appliances have become much cheaper (inflation-adjusted and also in terms of hours worked to buy them) in the last 50 years so people are actually saving money. I don't see how you tie any Federal reserve/Central banks policy to the longevity of products.

Indeed, if products were getting cheaper in absolute terms (via deflation) not just in relative terms (inflation-adjusted, as is the situation now) this would not lead to people buying high quality products which last because the expectation would be that they would be cheaper to replace in future.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#837

Post by r00fus »

Arizhel wrote: post #825
r00fus wrote: post #791

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another factor to this - the US homeownership has gone down over the years, and will likely go lower. More renters = even less incentive for reliable products, as the cheapest install that works is sufficient to rent.

Not necessarily. The problem here is that many appliances are the property of the landlord, and it's their responsibility to repair or replace them. Landlords who buy cheap junk appliances that need quick replacement are going to see their profits wiped out. I really don't see how home ownership is a factor here at all. This is just a symptom of modern society where people don't expect things to last and don't penali…

> Landlords who buy cheap junk appliances that need quick replacement are going to see their profits wiped out.

Have you rented recently? I can tell you from my own experience (US/Ca and Ut) as well as family/friends who don't own - that often landlords (or property management companies hired to manage the rental) much prefer "new,shiny,cheap".

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#838

Post by Arizhel »

Chaebixi wrote: post #717
nommm-nommm wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would your fridge need a calendar app?

Probably so that you can show off cool new tech as a trade show. IIRC, people have been trying to stick computers in refrigerators since the first dot-com boom. It made little sense then (and even less sense now), but it has a superficial appeal if you don't think about it too much: everyone in the family interacts with the fridge on a regular daily basis and many people use it as the household noticeboard. However,…

It would make sense if 1) the fridge could somehow detect how much of various things you had left (milk, butter, etc.), 2) order these things for you automatically, and 3) there was an economical way of getting these perishable things shipped to you cheaply. It's sorta like Amazon with their buttons (I forget the exact name now), where you can press a little button in your laundry room and they'll immediately ship you some more detergent.

The problems here are 1) there's no easy way to automatically detect the levels/amounts of foods in your fridge with current tech, 2) shipping a single milk or stick of butter is horrifically uneconomical, and 3) shipping cold, perishable items is even more uneconomical. I guess you could configure the computer on the fridge with your favorite items inside, and then just press buttons on the screen when something runs low (so it's not fully automatic), but that doesn't help with #2 and #3.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#839

Post by Arizhel »

theiz wrote: post #430
WalterBright wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had many cars with electric windows. They all eventually failed, usually when it was raining, and the windows could not be raised. Fixing them would cost over $500. My truck now has hand cranked windows, and mechanical door locks. They're no trouble at all, and I'm happy with them.

I live in Europe, and my feelings About us cars is the same as the story about washing machines: somewhere in the '80 the quality got from superb to rubish. Where Honda cars of the nineties stil drive around, american cars dont. You see the old american cars of the sixties and seventies, but then you get a gap to only those almost new.

American here. Sorry, no: American cars from the 70s were complete and utter junk. The reason you see some (not a lot) still driving around is because their owners love them and put a lot of time into keeping them running. It's just like why you still see American cars from the 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s driving around and at classic car shows; it's not because they're that reliable. Put enough work into repairing it and you can keep anything running.

You're absolutely right about American cars in the 90s versus Japanese cars from the same time. Hondas back then were bulletproof, really fantastic cars. American cars from that time were junk, not much better than the ones in the 80s (which were even worse). On top of that, the styling of American cars in the 80s was so awful that no one actually wants to keep them around. 70s American cars were ugly to me, but I could see how some people might like that kind of styling, but the 80s cars were just ugly boxes that were attempting to compete with the economical and reliable Japanese cars of the time, and failing badly. The 90s weren't much better, and had all kinds of bloated-looking American cars coming out. It's only been in the last decade that American cars haven't been horribly ugly as a rule. By contrast, the Japanese cars from the 90s were not only reliable but looked nice too.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#840

Post by Dylan16807 »

tokenizerrr wrote: post #445
phillc73 wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we really are talking at cross purposes. Yes, my in-built navigation system requires me to tether my phone to receive traffic updates. No tethering, no traffic updates or traffic camera alerts. I don't have an alternative solution and understand a data connection is required for this functionality to work. My point was that already I lose this service if I travel out of my own country and turn the data connec…

So you're not responding to the parent comment at all? The comment: > I think it should be that way with cars. Just include a screen and some buttons, then let people connect their smart phones. Your situation as described: A built-in navigation system which is quite a bit more than just a screen and some buttons. It just happens to use your phone for data connection.

He's saying that he disagrees with the parent comment. That just a screen is great until it means you can't navigate.
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