Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team • Hacker News Board

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#831

Post by return0 » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:39 PM UTC

rootlocus wrote: post #811

return0 wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he's a liar, No doubt. ALL politicians are to some extent. > misogynist, because? Misogyny is literally HATRED of women, like, treating them really harsh. I dont think the democrats were convincing at that > tech illiterate, He seems to be handling twitter quite great > arrogant No doubt about that but sociopathy is a frequent characteristic of leaders > and overall a disgusting human being Disgust is visceral aver…

> Misogyny is literally HATRED of women No, it's not. I won't quote dictionaries, you can look it up on wikipedia. You can also find compilations of all the offensive remarks he made regarding women. > ALL politicians are to some extent. True. Indeed, we're all liars. However, Trump seems to disregard the truth when it stands right next to him. Even in the face of irrefutable proof he doesn't back down. That's worse…

> No, it's not. I won't quote dictionaries, you can look it up on wikipedia.

You bring up an interesting point. The definition of "Misogyny" in wikipedia in 2004:

Misogyny is an exaggerated pathological aversion towards women.

became in 2016:

Misogyny is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls.

I can't help but see the broadening of the definition throughout the years. It happens a lot with words ending in '-phobia' as well. Food for thought.

For the record the word miso-gyny etymologically means "hatred of women"

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#832

Post by dangerlibrary » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:41 PM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #743

dangerlibrary wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump has been bankrupt four times and relies heavily on debt to finance his real estate ventures. It's well documented that he took on hundreds of millions of debt in the form of "junk bonds" (so called because of the high risk of default and the resulting high interest rate - 14%) in order to pay for his casinos in Atlantic city, for example. He defaulted on many of those obligations, in some cases ultimately payin…

> Several of Trump's corporations have been bankrupt 4 times... FTFY. > relies heavily on debt to finance his real estate ventures Real estate has high start-up costs but holds lots of value. Debt is the perfect vehicle to finance real estate, ever wonder why most people take out mortgages to buy homes, but give up equity to fund tech start-ups? You use the investment vehicle that makes sense for the type of business…

I was responding to the parent comment which claimed Trump was unlikely to be in debt. I don't think I criticized the use of debt as an investment vehicle for real estate, per se - my goal was to lay out a few facts about Trump's past business practices and the reasons why people are interested in his tax returns and concerned about possible conflicts of interest. You're right that debt is an excellent vehicle for real estate investment. I have a mortgage - it would be pretty hypocritical of me to disagree.

The vehicle for the conflict of interest isn't what's interesting. I would still be concerned if a tech founder with a bunch of unknown private investors were to be elected to public office. More concerned if that founder refused to release any information about those investors, the amounts invested, or cap table. Even more concerned if that founder refused to put their stake in the company in a blind trust.

Many of our laws and the powers we grant our public officials rely on the assumption that someone who is in high public office got there for reasons other than to enrich themselves. In Trump's case, he may have other motives, but he's flaunted historical precedent in not releasing his tax returns or even attempting to remove the appearance of conflict of interest. Whatever you think of Clinton's relationship to the Clinton Foundation, we have the data because it was all publicly disclosed. We know nothing about Trump.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#833

Post by maratd » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:43 PM UTC

notahacker wrote: post #777

BurningFrog wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can definitely judge him for supporting the campaign. But do you judge him even more for pitching in after the election? As an admirer of Thiel and... the opposite of Trump, I find the whole thing confusing, but I'm definitely glad to have a sharp voice outside the Christie/Gingrich/Guiliani-axis involved. Thiel is not some random rich fat cat who buys an ambassadorship. He's an extremely capable and accomplished…

We judge him for how and why he pitches in, bearing in mind that a Trump presidency is something he wanted to actualise rather than mitigate the effects of. I don't doubt Thiel is capable and accomplished, but I also don't doubt he's ruthless, ambitious and tends to see things in black and white. It remains to be seen which of the ideas he's championed on he chooses to focuses his efforts on, of course, whether that'…

> We judge him for how and why he pitches in

You have no idea how or why he's pitching in. You have very limited information on that front and judging him based on that is silly.

It seems far more likely everything that was said and done was simply to get his foot in the door. You have no idea what his intentions are.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#834

Post by dcosson » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:44 PM UTC

meritt wrote: post #21

This was obvious from the RNC speech and further reinforced when Thiel donated $1M to Trump. A contrarian bet, sure, but $1M is a pretty small price to pay to have a 50/50 shot at CTO of the USA. I'm sure he'll see a very significant ROI on his $1M once the government starts awarding contracts very conveniently to companies of which he owns a portion. I had very negative feelings about Thiel, and those were magnified…

He is certainly shrewd. Regardless of some of his views I disagree with, I guess I do now hope that he becomes an advisor to Trump because at least some of his friends are people I respect. And there's a good chance someone else that Trump/the GOP might choose instead would be even worse than Thiel.

Also, having an openly gay advisor gives some hope that Trump might stand up to the anti-LGBT majority of the Republican party, perhaps even nominate a supreme court justice that doesn't want to overturn marriage equality.

Thiel having called climate change pseudoscience as recently as 2 years ago on the other hand, and having actually acted on the authoritarian impulses he shares with Trump to shut down media organizations out of revenge, is not encouraging.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#835

Post by matt4077 » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:51 PM UTC

thecopy wrote: post #676

BurningFrog wrote: post #669

Relevant column: "I don't see a moral obligation for anyone to serve in a Trump administration. But people who opposed Donald Trump, on both the left and right, should commit right now to one thing: We will not tar good people for joining the Trump administration. Their motives will not be questioned, and if things do turn out as some of his critics fear, the people in his foreign and domestic policy apparatus will n…

>He has built no ideological framework for future policies Sounds like a positive thing

Thinking is impossible without ideology. You need some principles, otherwise you're just floating in empty space with no way to decide anything, because you couldn't even judge outcomes.

His ideology is mostly "might is right". That's actually quite convenient, because it sanctions any outcome. Grandmother robbed at night? Why did you leave the house? Grandmother killed at home? Shoulda worked harder – winners can afford better locks.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#836

Post by gedrap » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:56 PM UTC

rootlocus wrote: post #820

gedrap wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but your comment simply indicates the problem. It's quite similar to the post-Brexit discussions, how pro-Bexit people are stupid, etc. We can talk about what a "liar, misogynist, tech illiterate, arrogant and overall a disgusting human being" he is all we want. It would probably be fine, as in it wouldn't really matter, if he was some random radical weirdo with an audience of a dozen equally weird folks. But h…

> It's quite similar to the post-Brexit discussions, how pro-Bexit people are stupid, etc. Except I didn't call voters stupid, I simply summarized what Trump said. > We can talk about [...] It would probably be fine [...] But he's the President-elect. Of course we can talk about it. We have freedom of speech (wasn't this the original point?). You mean to tell me he can say whatever he wants but I can't call him out b…

Trump those things was definitely not acceptable. But we can't undo the election or ignore the results of it simply because we don't find it acceptable. A very large share of American population were happy enough to vote for him. This, Brexit, raise to popularity of some specific parties in Europe should be a huge wake up call. And if we keep the attitude of 'racists voted him! He's a liar!' then it's just the beginning.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#837

Post by return0 » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:57 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #426

edblarney wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Lots of individuals who Trump "owes" through either money or support they provided to him; pure cronyism." Trump is the most 'free' President in modern history. He 'owes' the least, to the fewest people. This is one thing even the center-left press were talking about. As for Thiel - $1M might seem like a lot - but Trump doesn't really 'owe' Thiel anything, because Thiel doesn't have direct future influence etc., and…

Why exactly am I meant to be comforted by the fact that the craven opportunists --- the lowest of the low of the Republican party, discredited outsiders like Newt Gingrich and John Bolton --- are getting the most important positions in the United States government for kowtowing to Trump? There are important thinkers in the Republican Party. People with ideas and a moral core, people who have given years of service to…

Wouldn't it alienate the voter base if people who opposed Trump (and his voters) were brought in?

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#838

Post by mch82 » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 5:00 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #800

BurningFrog wrote: post #669

Relevant column: "I don't see a moral obligation for anyone to serve in a Trump administration. But people who opposed Donald Trump, on both the left and right, should commit right now to one thing: We will not tar good people for joining the Trump administration. Their motives will not be questioned, and if things do turn out as some of his critics fear, the people in his foreign and domestic policy apparatus will n…

I agree entirely with McArdle on this. At this point, I would be extremely reassured by an administration that is "wrong within normal parameters". That's not what we're likely to get. We've gotten the following trial balloons for appointments: * John Bolton or Newt Gingrich for State * Larry Kudlow or Steven Mnuchin for Treasury * Joe Arpaio for DHS * Steve Bannon for Chief Of Staff * Chris Christie or Rudy Giuliani…

Is Joe Arpaio really the suggested option for DHS?

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#839

Post by tptacek » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 5:01 PM UTC

mch82 wrote: post #838

tptacek wrote: post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree entirely with McArdle on this. At this point, I would be extremely reassured by an administration that is "wrong within normal parameters". That's not what we're likely to get. We've gotten the following trial balloons for appointments: * John Bolton or Newt Gingrich for State * Larry Kudlow or Steven Mnuchin for Treasury * Joe Arpaio for DHS * Steve Bannon for Chief Of Staff * Chris Christie or Rudy Giuliani…

Is Joe Arpaio really the suggested option for DHS?

Yes. The transition team has floated his name. Another name is David Clarke, who thinks we should outlaw Black Lives Matter.

These are all trial balloons, of course. I hope they're just posturing, and that we're going to get people in the vein of John Ashcroft --- wrong (very wrong), but within normal parameters.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#840

Post by fernandotakai » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 5:02 PM UTC

mrgordon wrote: post #647

masondixon wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I promise not to argue against you, and certainly not to slur you. Please argue! And thank you for not slurring :) > Would you be willing to articulate your argument for Trump here? I supported Obama. I always considered myself a liberal. I support gay marriage, I support gun control. I support universal health care. I support decent welfare and a safety net. As a programmer, the formative moment for my Trump suppo…

Keep in mind that Thiel sued Gawker to stop freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Trump doesn't care and will appoint Thiel to a major position in his administration anyway. Trump also repeatedly sued (or threatened to sue) newspapers who published factual stories about him as well as women who he sexually abused. This is a chilling precedent for free speech: if you are rich enough, then you can just sue to sil…

i honestly cannot agree with you.

showing a sex tape and refusing to remove it (which is why hogan was suing gawker) from your site is not freedom of press. if it was, the leakage of celebrity pics (also known as 'the fappening') would be fine, no?

also, gawker outed thiel, which is bullshit. people should come out when they are ready, not when a yellow-paged blog decides.

also, let's change genders and say gawker not only leaked but refused to remove jennifer aniston's sex tape from their site. would you call that freedom of press?