Donald Trump Is Elected President • Hacker News Board

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#831

Post by plandis » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 8:34 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #70

As someone who's actively vocalized his support for Trump in the past, both here[1] and in my meat space life, I'm ecstatic with the results of this election. Not just the POTUS, but the trifecta of the house and senate as well. That's as loud of a mandate as can be expected from a strongly divided country. On top of all that, with the SCOTUS picks that are expected in the next few years, this election is going to be…

Why do you hate national parks

Why do you deny climate change?

Why do you support molesting women?

Why do you think black people need to be stopped and frisked?

Why do you hate gay people?

Why do you think all Muslims are bad?

Why do you think more religion in our government and schools is a good thing?

Why do you hate women's reproductive rights?

Why do you think we should actively consider using nuclear weapons?

Why do you want to allow health care providers to deny coverage to some people essentially signing their death warrant?

That's not name calling you voted for the guy and his running mate who think that way.

What the fuck? What do you have against my gay friends who just want health care? What have they ever done to you?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#832

Post by kafkaesq » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 8:34 PM UTC

DominikR wrote: post #596

huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

This is true, she didn't make a strong positive case for what her policies would look like. And if she did then she didn't spend her time effectively trying to convey this. (can't actually remember even a single policy of hers except for easier abortions and confrontation with Russia over Syria) But what I feel is problematic is that Trump was painted as some kind of Hitler, which is ludicrous if you spent a few hour…

I upvoted (or rather, anti-downvoted) your comment because (even though it does seem you could use a better historical perspective on things) it was undoubtedly sincere and civil.

But what I feel is problematic is that Trump was painted as some kind of Hitler, which is ludicrous if you spent a few hours watching some of his rallies.

The thing about Trump is that he's better classified as a "proto-" or "quasi-fascist", rather than anything of the old school, early 20th-century sort. For exactly the reasons you describe -- Middle America in 2016 doesn't particularly have an appetite for jackboots or Nuremberg-style rallies, and most likely never will.

But blatant anti-intellectualism, incessant emotionalism, button-pushing, and finger-pointing, combined with a healthy dose of naked bigotry and not-so-subtly implied threats of violence? "You betcha". Those are the seeds of fascist and authoritarian thinking. And they are at the very heart and core of what Trump and his people are about.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#833

Post by dannylandau » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 8:34 PM UTC

daodedickinson wrote: post #494

huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

>turnout "Obama got 65.9m votes in '12, Romney 60.9m. Clinton has 59.3m, Trump 59.1m. R vote didn't go up; Dem vote went down. 6.6m missing votes." https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/796378238306160641

This disparity in numbers is the most salient point about this election, period.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#834

Post by greenshackle2 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 8:35 PM UTC

ryanx435 wrote: post #787

bcit-cst wrote: post #462

I am still not sure what are Donald Trumps foreign policy positions are . 1) ON Syria/ISIS . All he as said is that he will hit them very very hard. okay going from that , does it mean a) he plans on putting 100K US troop on the ground and engage in an all-out war. b) or just put 100's of drones in the Air and just start bombing shit. How does he plan on bringing on board our Allies like Jordan and Iraqi government o…

do YOU understand the MAD doctrine? it only works if your enemy believes that you will use nuclear weapons. If they don't think you will use nukes, than the threat of mutually assured destruction isn't a real threat, so MAD doesn't work. purely in terms of MAD, it is actually good that everyone thinks that trump is eager to launch the nukes.

He doesn't seem to understand NATO though. He made every security expert shit their pants by stating he wouldn't necessarily defend NATO countries.

It makes me question his understanding of the strategic value of unconditional retaliation, which underpins MAD.

(Alternatively, he understands, but doesn't care if Europe gets stomped by Russia.)

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#835

Post by serge2k » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 8:39 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #257

mitchpron wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education. It's what Obama was emphasizing his entire presidency. Those jobs are never coming back, and even more are going to be automated. The education gap between rich and poor (and white and minority) is getting larger because of hoodlum-fearing mothers who support segregated neighborhoods and schools. Plus the poor-parent schools stay poor and the rich-parent schools stay rich. All of these factors together (wh…

You know, I used to think the same way --education. But Europe, Germany in particular, stresses education, and that has not saved them from having overqualified people and too few jobs for them. It also minimizes the fact that not all people have the aptitude to learn and obtain higher degrees. It's a race to the top and in that race there will always be people below who feel left out. So education can only offer so…

Education and welfare are the only reasonable solutions.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#836

Post by lkrubner » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 8:40 PM UTC

jernfrost wrote: post #215

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up…

I can't find it on Google, but there was a famous political quote around the 1988 election: "Every time a Democrat mentions retraining, they lose another 100,000 votes."

The USA lost 2 million industrial jobs during the 1980s. It was, at the time, the worst decade for deindustrialization. The Democrats felt the answer was retraining. The Republican reply amounted to the assertion that the USA needed a strong dollar.

And the Republicans won re-election in 1988.

From this, the Democrats learned that they would be punished for mentioning retraining. So it lost ground as an idea in USA politics.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#837

Post by xorxornop » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 8:40 PM UTC

Many here will recognise the formative childhood experience of having done something forbidden and getting caught doing it by their parents where, for the first time, instead of the usual response - their getting angry - you are taken completely by surprise when they simply say "I am so disappointed in you" or similar, accompanied by some expression in the realm of abject futility.

This is one of those.

That this could have had any realistic chance of happening at all says a lot about the current state of the US populace.

I find reading any political news out of the US to be particularly distressing: the extent of the echo chamber effect is very prominent and highly persistent. Admittedly, this is part of a more general phenomenon with regard to news today, given that people can construct their own echo chambers much more readily than in any other time of history - but it seems considerably worse in the US. I'm not quite sure why. Perhaps because the FPTP political system encourages game-theoretic strategies which unfortunately effectively optimise for polarisation and related properties..?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#838

Post by jimbokun » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 8:41 PM UTC

blakeyrat wrote: post #294

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

I live in a relatively small suburb of Seattle. I'm a software developer. There are no jobs for me where I live. None. None within 20 miles. The only job for me is in Seattle or Bellevue or Redmond, an hour-long commute. I love where I live, and I don't want to live in Seattle (which I could barely afford anyway-- I like owning a house). I also don't want to exclusively work-from-home and be cut-off socially from my…

"(which I could barely afford anyway-- I like owning a house)"

First world problems indeed. I can own a dwelling much larger than the vast majority of people living in the world can afford, on a spacious lot, or can live in a much smaller dwelling with much more convenient access to my place of work, but can't have both!

Sorry, but you're not ranking high on my list of people in desperate need of government intervention to fix your problem.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#839

Post by ryanx435 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 8:42 PM UTC

greenshackle2 wrote: post #834

ryanx435 wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do YOU understand the MAD doctrine? it only works if your enemy believes that you will use nuclear weapons. If they don't think you will use nukes, than the threat of mutually assured destruction isn't a real threat, so MAD doesn't work. purely in terms of MAD, it is actually good that everyone thinks that trump is eager to launch the nukes.

He doesn't seem to understand NATO though. He made every security expert shit their pants by stating he wouldn't necessarily defend NATO countries. It makes me question his understanding of the strategic value of unconditional retaliation, which underpins MAD. (Alternatively, he understands, but doesn't care if Europe gets stomped by Russia.)

He negotiated a better deal. The majority of countries that were not contributing to NATO in accordance with the treaty are now doing so.

He very clearly explained his thought process for this type of thing in the Art of the deal. To paraphrase, he started with an extreme position (disbanding NATO) so that he can meet the other party somewhere in the middle (they pay their fair share and do their part militarily).

Overall it would seem he was very successful with this.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#840

Post by pc86 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 8:43 PM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #114

koolba wrote: post #70

As someone who's actively vocalized his support for Trump in the past, both here[1] and in my meat space life, I'm ecstatic with the results of this election. Not just the POTUS, but the trifecta of the house and senate as well. That's as loud of a mandate as can be expected from a strongly divided country. On top of all that, with the SCOTUS picks that are expected in the next few years, this election is going to be…

What are the milestones and key metrics for the "direction that has been chosen"? In four years, if the rural mine workers are still out of work and iPads are still made in China, will you concede that the experiment failed? I can't see Trump doing that. Deflecting blame has been a theme of his career. Therefore I'm frightened that he's going to need new scapegoats for his lack of achievements pretty soon... And cons…

> In four years, if the rural mine workers are still out of work and iPads are still made in China, will you concede that the experiment failed?

That's like saying that because people still have to pay for insurance in the US that Obamacare failed and he's a failed President and should feel bad about himself.