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New Windows 10 Devices From Microsoft

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Re: New Windows 10 Devices From Microsoft

#831

Post by marpstar »

gozo wrote: post #747
hkmurakami wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I was hopeful for when VAIO was spun off of SONY last year. When I saw the "machined magnesium body" line in their video [1] I was immediately reminded of the VAIO laptops that had beautiful material way back in the 90's. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVfOe5mFbAE&feature=youtu.be

"Fun fact": Steve Jobs is said to have admired Sony [0] and things like the MacBook Air is presumably inspired by the Sony VAIO X505 [1]. [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+admiration+for+so... [1] http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/6/5385716/sony-vaio-iconic-pc...

I worked at Geek Squad in the mid 2000s and we had one regular customer who had one of those X505. Its thinness and its lightness were unbelievable back then.

Re: New Windows 10 Devices From Microsoft

#832

Post by [deleted] »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #818
unabst wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 8 was not stronger. Microsoft Tablet PC was a modest attempt in 2002, but again, not stronger. The issue with the Surface Book is how closely they intentionally align themselves with their biggest competitor. They are begging for a comparison. And I could have easily mistaken the page for a 2002 Tablet PC overview. Only the pictures are different. "Redefining the laptop" is hardly inspiring copy. Which demo?…

Are you really comparing the company that just put out the Macbook (oh wow a thinner than thin enough MBA with a higher res display, no ports, worse battery, worse CPU, worse GPU, for a much higher price) and the iPad Pro (wow a bigger iPad with a pen many other tablets and laptops already had covered, that you have to charge by sticking it into the iPad like an idiot [0], to Microsoft which just demo'd a pretty damn…

[deleted]

Re: New Windows 10 Devices From Microsoft

#833

Post by maratd »

apostrophedave wrote: post #809
wahsd wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You don't chip $50 off a premium laptop and make it crappy I got that kind of feeling though when he was talking about both the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book. The SP4 is thicker than it could be because you wanted to add a full USB-A??? WHY?? and there are USB-A and not USB-C and a full SD slot on the Book ... WHY??? It made me ill to see them add that shit. It felt like typical MS snatching defeat from the jaws of…

pretty annoying, especially when its so close to being the perfect laptop for me, one that i could go a good 10 or so years without having to upgrade if it only had included usb c and a fingerprint reader. but from their point of view it probably makes more sense because where would you go after making a perfect laptop like that!? it would already be as thin as it can and there wouldnt be that much more to add to it…

> and a fingerprint reader.

It has a fingerprint reader.

Re: New Windows 10 Devices From Microsoft

#834

Post by lewisl9029 »

Overall quite happy with these updates for the Surface and Surface Book, but personally I'm a bit disappointed by the lack of shiny new technologies like USB-C, Thunderbolt 3, Wireless Charging and WiGig.

After having used a laptop with a WiGig dock that can support a fully populated 10-port USB Hub, 3 DisplayPort displays, and Gigabit Ethernet transfers wirelessly across most of my room, I'm thoroughly convinced that a device with both WiGig and Wireless Charging would be absolutely amazing to use.

Re: New Windows 10 Devices From Microsoft

#835

Post by austinsharp »

lewisl9029 wrote: post #834

Overall quite happy with these updates for the Surface and Surface Book, but personally I'm a bit disappointed by the lack of shiny new technologies like USB-C, Thunderbolt 3, Wireless Charging and WiGig. After having used a laptop with a WiGig dock that can support a fully populated 10-port USB Hub, 3 DisplayPort displays, and Gigabit Ethernet transfers wirelessly across most of my room, I'm thoroughly convinced tha…

I believe the Lumia phones have USB-C and Wireless Charging. Though it sounds like you're talking about the Book and Pro 4?

Re: New Windows 10 Devices From Microsoft

#836

Post by Arnavion »

cmurf wrote: post #816
Arnavion wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secure Boot is always disable-able on x86. This has been true since Surface Pro 1.

The Windows 10 hardware certification permits the OEM to make Secure Boot not disablable. But the way the major distros work, they get a pre-bootloader signed with the Microsoft key through Microsoft's signing service, and that pre-bootloader contains a key permitting the chaining of the real bootloader, the kernel, signed with the distro key. So it's not a big problem.

Up till W8.1, the spec (https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/jj...) explicitly requires the ability to disable Secure Boot:

    On non-ARM systems, the platform MUST implement the ability for a physically present user to select between two Secure Boot modes in firmware setup: "Custom" and "Standard". Custom Mode allows for more flexibility as specified in the following:
    ...
    B.If the user ends up deleting the PK then, upon exiting the Custom Mode firmware setup, the system is operating in Setup Mode with SecureBoot turned off.
    ...
    Enable/Disable Secure Boot. On non-ARM systems, it is required to implement the ability to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup. A physically present user must be allowed to disable Secure Boot via firmware setup without possession of PKpriv.
I can't find the doc for W10. Has the language changed? Can you link it?

The closest thing I found is https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/dn... which isn't really a spec, but does say:

    For most PCs, you can disable Secure Boot through the PC’s firmware (BIOS) menus. For logo-certified Windows RT 8.1 and Windows RT PCs, Secure Boot is required to be configured so that it cannot be disabled.
which seems to imply that it is no longer a hard requirement for x86 unlike before.

Re: New Windows 10 Devices From Microsoft

#837

Post by [deleted] »

cmurf wrote: post #816
Arnavion wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secure Boot is always disable-able on x86. This has been true since Surface Pro 1.

The Windows 10 hardware certification permits the OEM to make Secure Boot not disablable. But the way the major distros work, they get a pre-bootloader signed with the Microsoft key through Microsoft's signing service, and that pre-bootloader contains a key permitting the chaining of the real bootloader, the kernel, signed with the distro key. So it's not a big problem.

[deleted]

Re: New Windows 10 Devices From Microsoft

#838

Post by komaromy »

suryon wrote: post #411
elipsey wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point, but not ideal for everyone. Especially with IOMMU and an SSD, performance isn't so bad when it works. I haven't liked the overhead with this in the past though, plus no full disk encryption, (although I guess you could do it in the guest), and Windows security in general, and bad 3D drivers for the guest (compositing please), and anything that wants low level hardware access is out. So if you don't actual…

Windows security in general is better than Linux security in general.Unless you are running Grsec/PaX but hey i do not believe you do that on desktop. Also you can still run EMET on Windows.

> Windows security in general is better than Linux security in general.

Can you elaborate on this or provide some sources?

Re: New Windows 10 Devices From Microsoft

#839

Post by lewisl9029 »

austinsharp wrote: post #835
lewisl9029 wrote: post #834

Overall quite happy with these updates for the Surface and Surface Book, but personally I'm a bit disappointed by the lack of shiny new technologies like USB-C, Thunderbolt 3, Wireless Charging and WiGig. After having used a laptop with a WiGig dock that can support a fully populated 10-port USB Hub, 3 DisplayPort displays, and Gigabit Ethernet transfers wirelessly across most of my room, I'm thoroughly convinced tha…

I believe the Lumia phones have USB-C and Wireless Charging. Though it sounds like you're talking about the Book and Pro 4?

Yep, I should have been a bit more specific.

Re: New Windows 10 Devices From Microsoft

#840

Post by code_sterling »

baddox wrote: post #822
tmd83 wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! At least from the initial look and spec it looks like they did a lot of the things right and put effort in making this nice. Yes there are things that maybe I can get by without but the basics looks fantastic. You don't chip $50 off a premium laptop and make it crappy. OEM just keeps making too many model at every price point .. at every 20 dollars it feels like. While I hate the almost singular choice for OsX…

> While I hate the almost singular choice for OsX I actually find that this is less true now, and I miss when it was more true. There are a lot of choices now, not just at price points, but at form factors. Do I get a 13" MacBook Air, a 13" MacBook Pro Retina, a 12" MacBook, or the upcoming 12.9" iPad Pro?

I was just speaking to one of my devs about this today. Steve Jobs' turned Apple around by removing choice. You had a Consumer and Pro category and they each had a laptop and a desktop. The new Apple is slowly drifting into Dell territory, where I have too many options. It becomes the Netflix problem where I find myself having too many options, so I browse the offerings, and before I decide, fall asleep.
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