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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#821

Post by MarkTee »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #818
pekk wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff. Completely ridiculous and unprofessional. But, not sexist. Just terrible.

However, the guy who declared his love for her despite knowing that she had a boyfriend, and then started sabotaging all her code when she shot him down, is very much sexist bullshit.

That's not sexism; he was acting maliciously because she turned down his advances, not because she was a woman.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#822

Post by rmrfrmrf »

unreal37 wrote: post #282
harshreality wrote: post #190

The article quotes JAH's email as saying, "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a problem with this. What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. It looked like something out of a strip club. When I brought this up to male coworkers, they didn’t see a problem with it. But for…

If someone were to hula-hoop to music in my office, male or female, I am pretty sure there would be a lot of people looking on. Not sure where the line of "looking on" and "gawking" is in that situation.

That's why I feel like they should just not allow hula-hooping in the office. As someone who has been to both gay and straight clubs, I know that "grown-ups hula hooping" is a lot less like innocent fun and more like rapid pelvic thrusting with a hoop thrown in.

The problem is that a "no hula-hooping" rule sounds ridiculous, and really even splitting hairs on the topic itself seems tedious. Instead, any disruptive behavior should be off-limits and it should be up to the managers to enforce the rules. There are "fun police" at your place of employment for a reason, because honestly this whole situation could have been avoided if the hula-hoopers had kept their hobbies at home.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#823

Post by Dylan16807 »

phazmatis wrote: post #800
Dylan16807 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, just delete this comment. Yeah oh my god that sentence could be interpreted wrong. We don't need a tangent about it. The real meaning has absolutely nothing to do with subordination. It's a simple matter of keeping your friends/relatives/partners out of your job. They don't work there, they shouldn't be interfering. Also, shame on anyone that upvotes such a derail just because they agree with the words.

What do we have, if not words, to convey complex meanings? We can't all be telepaths like you. His wife doesn't need to be kept in line... his wife needs to be kept out of company business unless she's an employee.

The 'line' seems clear to me, the company/not-company boundary.

And I wasn't disparaging words. But if I pick some post and comment 'freedom is good!' I'm not contributing to productive discussion no matter how many people agree.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#824

Post by eruditely »

droopybuns wrote: post #781
Eliezer wrote: post #644

Ooh! The media! We're supposed to blindly trust their reporting even though they get wrong everything we know about personally, right? Clarification from Julie Ann Horvath describing everything TechCrunch misrepresented in 3... 2... 1... (The real situation may be better or worse. TechCrunch may have left out info that helps or damns GitHub. But you're naive if you think a journalist would report on a story like this…

It would be enlightening to see case studies of instances where anyone in tech tried leveraging journalists to solve career problems. Over the long term, I am suspicious that volunteering yourself as a subject in someone else's narrative does not do you any favors. It'd be nice to see an analysis on how this kind of response benefits or hurts the subject personally, professionally or emotionally.

That may be the case, but they may perceive otherwise, at least initially.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#825

Post by tsax »

In Pakistan, personal vendettas are sometimes carried out by accusing people of blasphemy, thus deputizing the state apparatus in your service. http://www.fides.org/en/news/32696?idnews=32696&lan=eng#.UyY...

Thus, we now see the use of 'sexism' as simply a masquerade for bad shit that goes on, to deputize the internet hordes to serve your cause.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#826

Post by stefan_kendall3 »

enneff wrote: post #152
LockeWatts wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask a question about phrasing for a minute? What's inherently wrong with an unwanted advance? Advances have an unknown state until they're responded to. If she had accepted it, it would've been a welcomed advance. There's no way to know that until you walk up to a woman and say "Hey, I think you're pretty cool. Want to go get a drink sometime?" If she says no, that's unwanted, but I don't see how it's inappropr…

> What's inherently wrong with an unwanted advance? I don't want to be hit on at work. It is totally inappropriate and unprofessional. And if I were a minority in my office I would find it very hard to deal with. From the article, he did not say "Want to get a drink some time?" > [He] asked himself over to “talk,” and then professed his love, and “hesitated” when asked to leave.

It sounds more the issue that the guy in question has an extreme lack of social skills.

I've successfully done stuff with co-workers before, but it happened in undertones. I did not go to anyone's house to profess my love. That's creepy no matter who's doing it.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#827

Post by Spooky23 »

sgentle wrote: post #235

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

This is a really weird issue. Why is she making a big public splash without naming names?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#828

Post by joshlegs »

einhverfr wrote: post #501

Hmmm..... I read this slowly and I see intimidation, but it is a little short on evidence of sexism. The evidence was a perception of sexism, but very little evidence of it. How much of that was in her mind vs in actual interactions with others (unless aggressive communication regarding pull requests applied evenly to both genders is inherently sexist). What I do see is something else though. I see a nebulous, bossle…

I think you have a lot of good points. Let me just point out that aggressiveness in management is present IN EVERY INDUSTRY KNOWN TO MAN. I faced it pretty hard in the news business. Just because your boss is aggressive, and he's a man, AND you're a woman, doesnt mean shit for evidencing sexist behavior. People need to realize that aggressive management != sexism.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#829

Post by igravious »

dwb wrote: post #737
sunseb wrote: post #363

BTW, it's not sexism at all, the main issue here is between two girls...

The word is "women". Would you call their male co-workers "boys" in the same context?

Oh give us a break, my Mum 60+ calls her friends 'girls'. The word hasn't been 'women' in ages. You people, sheesh.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#830

Post by sizzle »

MarkTee wrote: post #821
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the guy who declared his love for her despite knowing that she had a boyfriend, and then started sabotaging all her code when she shot him down, is very much sexist bullshit.

That's not sexism; he was acting maliciously because she turned down his advances, not because she was a woman.

I've worked with brilliant engineers that lack a lot of real world social skills and this doesn't surprise me one bit. A pretty girl really can mess with the logical types of people that have little experience with the opposite sex.
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