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Physical disc production ending in Jan 2028 for new games on PlayStation

blog.playstation.com

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Re: Physical disc production ending in Jan 2028 for new games on PlayStation

#821

Post by rupx »

aizk wrote: post #605
mywittyname wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can doubt this. But the fact is, the Xbox One was secure for it's entire operational life without a crack. And the Series X/S has held up as well. It's completely possible that future consoles are secure enough that the components fail long before the security does.

There just isn't a demand for it. Have you seen just how dedicated nintendo hackers are? Check out decomp.dev https://decomp.dev/

Decompliation is nothing compared to the effort and technical know-how required to jailbreak / exploit the Xbox One.

The Xbox One might be single handledly the most complex and secure piece of human hardware. [1] (Highly recommend watching this talk).

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTFn4UZsA5U

Re: Physical disc production ending in Jan 2028 for new games on PlayStation

#822

Post by hnlmorg »

xandrius wrote: post #750
hnlmorg wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> especially if you were mislead into buying a PS5 with a disc drive thinking it'd be supported at least until the end of the product's lifespan 8 years is roughly the lifespan for a games console though. And I say this as someone who hates Sony perhaps more than most, having lived through their the CD rootkit and PS3 OtherOS debacles. And been burned by their substandard yet overpriced audio equipment.

Game consoles are not biological beasts which decay as a matter of nature or fact. They are tools, toys, they are devices. I can still play my PS1 as before, I just need to pop in a CD and I'm good to go.

You’re conflating two completely different things.

I’m a retro gamer. I have around 20 systems all hooked up and ready to play from the Atari 2600 through to modern systems like the PS4. In fact I bet I have systems you hadn’t even heard of, and machines that are older than you are.

So I know better than most that consoles can live for decades. But that’s not what people mean when they talk about a consoles life.

What that term means is the period of time that a console is the current generation (and yes, “generation” is the technical term here and not something I made up).

Also decay isn’t a phenomenon exclusive to biology. Plenty of things which aren’t organic can have a life and decay, even though we know they’re not technically a life form. For example stars. But even technology can decay. Capacitors and batteries are the biggest two killers of old technology, and common problems I’ve had to repair in my old hardware. The laser in your PS1 is also a consumable. I’ve had to replace the laser in my PS1 for that very reason. Solder can crack. Any moving parts like motors, fans, and CD/DVD trays can seize up over time too. There’s also sun-bleaching that happens to white and grey casing too, which is thankfully a very easy fix.

Re: Physical disc production ending in Jan 2028 for new games on PlayStation

#823

Post by tomnipotent »

scheeseman486 wrote: post #818
tomnipotent wrote: post #793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no legal, economic, or dictionary definition of monopoly that supports your position. The closest example is "aftermarket" (what you call vertical) following the 90's Kodak SC case, which has long since fizzled out. Monopoly might as well not mean anything if you can define it however narrowly you want.

Let's look at Merriam-Webster '1: exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action specifically : exclusive control of a particular market that is marked by the power to control prices and exclude competition.' That definition doesn't define any boundaries on to what market a company has control over. A hardware platform like Playstation only has one store, run by the company who se…

> they now have total command of supply

They've always had control by licensing who can publish games on their platform. Now that contract with publishers has changed who can distribute. Publishers are still free to distribute on other platforms in whatever formats those platforms allow.

> that market being Playstation games

This is arbitrarily narrowing the definition of market as far as possible while ignoring reasonable (legal) thresholds. Case in point how Apple's App Store was not ruled a monopoly while Google's Play Store was - there are reasonable tests to pass, and Sony's case will land closer to Apple than Google. And a monopoly is not the only form of anti-competitive abuse.

Might as well claim Domino's has a monopoly on Domino's pizza.

Re: Physical disc production ending in Jan 2028 for new games on PlayStation

#824

Post by tomnipotent »

someonebaggy wrote: post #807
tomnipotent wrote: post #795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of your examples pass any of the checks for a monopoly unless you twist the definition of "market" to be the narrowest possible. Situational exclusivity is not the same as a monopoly, and these examples don't pass the hypothetical monopolist test or the cellophane fallacy.

Their definition: if a substantial group of buyers has no reasonable choice of seller, it's a monopoly situation

The Supreme Court ruled once on what they consider an aftermarket monopoly against Kodak in the 1990s, but the aftermarket angle on monopolies has been basically abandoned from a legal perspective because it was shaky at best.

Both iOS and Android both generate more in gaming revenue than Sony. The PC gaming market is only slightly smaller than the entirety of the console market. It's going to be very difficult to make an argument that customers don't have reasonable choice, and the recent case against Apple set precedent that owning the single channel of distribution to a product and platform you own isn't monopolistic unless you do shady things like Google did.

Sony's exclusive rights to distributing games on its owned platform and console will not give it pricing power (won't pass SNNIP) or exclude competition.

Sony can be called a dick for what they're doing without it also having to be monopolistic. People are right to be angry and calling them a monopoly over it is being cathartic.

Re: Physical disc production ending in Jan 2028 for new games on PlayStation

#825

Post by scheeseman486 »

tomnipotent wrote: post #823
scheeseman486 wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's look at Merriam-Webster '1: exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action specifically : exclusive control of a particular market that is marked by the power to control prices and exclude competition.' That definition doesn't define any boundaries on to what market a company has control over. A hardware platform like Playstation only has one store, run by the company who se…

> they now have total command of supply They've always had control by licensing who can publish games on their platform. Now that contract with publishers has changed who can distribute. Publishers are still free to distribute on other platforms in whatever formats those platforms allow. > that market being Playstation games This is arbitrarily narrowing the definition of market as far as possible while ignoring reas…

> This is arbitrarily narrowing the definition of market as far as possible

No it isn't, it's literally a market.

Dominos pizzas aren't created and sold by third parties. If you're going to make a comparison, try something doesn't so obviously miss the point (though if you want to talk about commercial food supply chains and how that's become almost entirely monopolized in the United States...).

The rest of your argument is basically "the law says so". Not an argument I'm interested in discussing since I don't care. I explicitly want legislative changes.

Re: Physical disc production ending in Jan 2028 for new games on PlayStation

#826

Post by VectorLock »

somenameforme wrote: post #331
VectorLock wrote: post #302

They want this even more than they want $100 games. Rockstar not shipping discs for GTA6 and PlayStation ending disc production is the perfect two pronged approach. Honestly gamers have been stomaching this for decades with Steam so Sony wants in on some of that sweet sweet action as well.

I don't think this is really comparable at all. Sony is trying to kill off the used game market in hope of being able to coerce people into paying more. Steam is basically one giant used game market in that you get stuff constantly for 50-90% off. And pirating stuff off Steam is generally extremely trivial, so it's a largely coercion-free business-customer relationship, and I think that's a large part of why they're…

>Steam is basically one giant used game market in that you get stuff constantly for 50-90% off.

I don't think thats comparable at all. You're not buying used games, you're buying discounted games. Sony can discount games too. Steam doesn't have a secondary market either.

We just seem to trust Valve more to not rugpull our purchases.

Re: Physical disc production ending in Jan 2028 for new games on PlayStation

#827

Post by guax »

AJRF wrote: post #761
guax wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not. The tide changed once gaming became a mainstream activity and a common item on lots of households. Most people want to play the same games. In Brazil there are play stations that never saw any other game other than FIFA whatever year. And people will be happy to pay the subscription to keep doing that. Sony loves those people more than anyone that was loyal before because we are too demanding.

If you don't think Playstation and Xbox are dying I would suggest looking at their performance and statements from the past 24 months. Xbox hardware sales down 30%, 5% on services and revenue. Sony PlayStation operating revenue is down -41%. These are not healthy businesses, and the future looks even more bleak. Years away from new hardware sales, and the franchise front is desperately bad - which means when hardware…

I don't know if they're dying. I don't know (or care) enough to figure out. Not having a disc kills it for me for sure.

The ps5 sold very well very fast during the pandemic, which could explain why now that the seas are rough the sales slumped.

If PS and Xbox become abandoned and cause game studios start focusing on PCs again I think it would be a good outcome. But that is just me wishing on a star.

Re: Physical disc production ending in Jan 2028 for new games on PlayStation

#828

Post by tialaramex »

account42 wrote: post #757
tialaramex wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the EU's backstop "Fuck Trump" options is to stop enforcing America's IP rights. Maybe this USB stick full of MCU movies isn't the highest possible quality and two of the Thor movies are missing for some reason, however it cost less than €20, so who cares ? Oh it's illegal ? Well my government said they don't give a shit about that until you get rid of the orange lunatic In a world where American media compani…

And then the government will give everyone free beer and a unicorn and everyone will live happily ever after.

Unlike imaginary animals, ceasing to enforce IP rights is less work rather than more.

Re: Physical disc production ending in Jan 2028 for new games on PlayStation

#829

Post by AJRF »

guax wrote: post #827
AJRF wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't think Playstation and Xbox are dying I would suggest looking at their performance and statements from the past 24 months. Xbox hardware sales down 30%, 5% on services and revenue. Sony PlayStation operating revenue is down -41%. These are not healthy businesses, and the future looks even more bleak. Years away from new hardware sales, and the franchise front is desperately bad - which means when hardware…

I don't know if they're dying. I don't know (or care) enough to figure out. Not having a disc kills it for me for sure. The ps5 sold very well very fast during the pandemic, which could explain why now that the seas are rough the sales slumped. If PS and Xbox become abandoned and cause game studios start focusing on PCs again I think it would be a good outcome. But that is just me wishing on a star.

I present article A: https://x.com/asha_shar/status/2074124008795369482

Re: Physical disc production ending in Jan 2028 for new games on PlayStation

#830

Post by tomnipotent »

scheeseman486 wrote: post #825
tomnipotent wrote: post #823

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they now have total command of supply They've always had control by licensing who can publish games on their platform. Now that contract with publishers has changed who can distribute. Publishers are still free to distribute on other platforms in whatever formats those platforms allow. > that market being Playstation games This is arbitrarily narrowing the definition of market as far as possible while ignoring reas…

> This is arbitrarily narrowing the definition of market as far as possible No it isn't, it's literally a market. Dominos pizzas aren't created and sold by third parties. If you're going to make a comparison, try something doesn't so obviously miss the point (though if you want to talk about commercial food supply chains and how that's become almost entirely monopolized in the United States...). The rest of your argu…

You seem to lack a basic understanding of what a market is in the context of a monopoly, and you can't argue your way around a bad foundation.

> our argument is basically "the law says so".

That's the only argument that matters, because monopoly is a legal matter.

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