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Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

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Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#821

Post by mangodrunk »

Natfan wrote: post #804
mangodrunk wrote: post #781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that you can be misinformed? Maybe you are in an echo chamber that makes it appear others are wrong. Maybe there are legitimate concerns regarding illegal immigrants. Maybe you should try to expand your understanding of the situation.

instead of "just asking questions", mayhaps you could answer them? what are you legitimate reasons regarding immigrants who lack documentation? do you have your documentation on you as all times, as a united states citizen?

Some are criminals, some bring problematic cultures, strain on services and take what is meant for citizens, taking low wage jobs, and they are exploited.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#822

Post by muddi900 »

FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #190
smallmancontrov wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of HNers who were earnestly arguing that this was the party of free speech indicates that this absolutely needs to be on the HN front page. > the administration’s rhetoric about cracking down on students protesting what we saw as genocide forced me into hiding for three months. Federal agents came to my home looking for me. A friend was detained at an airport in Tampa and interrogated about my whereabouts.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences of that speech

Freedom of speech is the freedom from State retailiation.

What the hell are you on about?

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#823

Post by greycol »

Ray20 wrote: post #746
jmyeet wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... it’s not allowed to use immigration machinery as a pretext to punish political expression. That’s exactly what they are doing. I agree: this is exactly what the administration is doing. > I’m generally receptive to point the finger at Google’s intentions but in their defense, administrative subpoenas frequently include non disclosure orders. Except immigration aren't allowed to put gag orders on administrative…

> as a pretext to punish political expression I sincerely don't understand why deportation is called a punishment in this discussion. As in any country in the world, US immigration law operates on the principle that a foreigner is granted a PRIVILEGE to be in the US. Or this privilege is denied with no reason whatsoever. Just because it is a PRIVILEGE. When someone is deported for participating in protests, they are…

Even assuming your incorrect framing of immigration as a privilege (You may as well say parents give their kids the privilege of going to play with their friends so grounding is not a punishment) consider the following.

It would be a privilege for me to give you a parachute for free. If you jump out of a plane with that privileged parachute, then it turns out to be a backpack with a sheet in it, what are your thoughts? Now you may not necessarily feel the word punishment fits in me giving you a backpack instead of a parachute, but you do see that I'd be the one in the wrong in that situation and that you are considerably worse off than before? I could wax lyrical about how thousands of people are in the air above the ground every day while jumping about, it doesn't change the fact that your position 3000ft in the air is a lot worse than those 2ft of the ground if you don't have the privilege of a free parachute you thought you had.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#824

Post by lmm »

ahhhhnoooo wrote: post #807
lmm wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think we're all in agreement. Well, fair enough, but you must acknowledge that that's the democratic consensus and the law as it stands. > Do they live here? Work here? The person in question is on a student visa, so (assuming they're not abusing the system) sort of but not really; they're here for a few years, and they might be doing a little part-time work to support themselves but they're meant to be her…

Do you think that having a say in the way the place you live for 5% of your life might increase the odds you want to settle down there and contribute to making it a good place? Someone is working on completing their higher education here, seems like that would select for folks who had an interest in education, the resilience to complete a degree, the means to do so, etc. If I didn't believe that borders were generall…

> Do you think that having a say in the way the place you live for 5% of your life might increase the odds you want to settle down there and contribute to making it a good place?

I think giving foreign students the vote would make some of them (the most politically opinionated ones) more likely to want to immigrate permanently, yes. Whether that would be a good thing is very much in dispute.

> Someone is working on completing their higher education here, seems like that would select for folks who had an interest in education, the resilience to complete a degree, the means to do so, etc.

But by the same logic, the worse the conditions attached to doing so, the stronger the selection effect will be.

> If I didn't believe that borders were generally bad

Then you might be in a more reasonable position to understand the general citizenry, rather than sitting in a glass house calling others "weird".

> it would seem that students are people we'd want to immigrate

I used to think that before I talked to more wannabe-immigrants. Goodhart's Law is turbocharged when it comes to routes to immigrate; if being a "student" is the easiest way to get a foot in the door then people will eagerly pay thousands for a "degree" they don't care about, and there are plenty of places happy to take their money. See the whole "day 1 CPT" industry for the apotheosis of that. Even if there was an enforcement crackdown on the worst abuses, it would be virtually impossible to eliminate the cases further along the spectrum, because it's a mutually beneficial arrangement for everyone involved except the rest of us.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#825

Post by ahhhhnoooo »

lmm wrote: post #824
ahhhhnoooo wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that having a say in the way the place you live for 5% of your life might increase the odds you want to settle down there and contribute to making it a good place? Someone is working on completing their higher education here, seems like that would select for folks who had an interest in education, the resilience to complete a degree, the means to do so, etc. If I didn't believe that borders were generall…

> Do you think that having a say in the way the place you live for 5% of your life might increase the odds you want to settle down there and contribute to making it a good place? I think giving foreign students the vote would make some of them (the most politically opinionated ones) more likely to want to immigrate permanently, yes. Whether that would be a good thing is very much in dispute. > Someone is working on c…

> Then you might be in a more reasonable position to understand the general citizenry, rather than sitting in a glass house calling others "weird".

Did I call anyone weird? Did I insinuate my opinion was somehow objectively better? I just have a different opinion than you on borders and immigration, and we're allowed to differ on opinions.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#826

Post by knowaveragejoe »

fhdkweig wrote: post #813
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy a phone on amazon right now and not sign for anything.

Does it have a carrier service when it arrives? That is the part that matters. They don't care whether you have a piece of hardware that just sits idle. They don't want people placing phone calls that can't be traced back to an identity that can be physically located and arrested.

To use mobile data, yes you'd have to prove some kind of identity in one way or another.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#827

Post by bavell »

Glemllksdf wrote: post #764
bavell wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, the original tariffs were under IEEPA, then Supreme Court ruled they didn't have authority to use IEEPA, so they had to drop those tariffs and start working on refunds. It'd only have been illegal if they kept the tariffs after the ruling. Lot of propaganda & emotions around this straightforward chain of events.

So the USA was under Wikipedia on IEEPA: "An Act with respect to the powers of the President in time of war or national emergency. "? I mean thats very wishi washi. So are we both aligned that it looks like missuse? Because if its only about a word definition of no its not illegal what he did but a clear missconduct than it feels like word play.

I do agree it was a weak case, I think SCOTUS ruled correctly.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#828

Post by bavell »

mindslight wrote: post #743
bavell wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, the original tariffs were under IEEPA, then Supreme Court ruled they didn't have authority to use IEEPA, so they had to drop those tariffs and start working on refunds. It'd only have been illegal if they kept the tariffs after the ruling. Lot of propaganda & emotions around this straightforward chain of events.

Under this reasoning, it's not illegal to just take things from stores (stores hate this one simple trick). If you're caught and your specific actions are then adjudicated to be illegal, at that point you can just start making a plan to bring the items back (even if some are used/damaged/etc) and everything is fine. In reality of course, the actions were illegal the whole time. The big festering problem is that there…

Definitely some problems in the current system, broad and creeping executive overreach extending back decades now.

Pretty sure stealing from stores is already illegal, not sure I understand your analogy... lots of case law / precedent there.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#829

Post by mindslight »

bavell wrote: post #828
mindslight wrote: post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under this reasoning, it's not illegal to just take things from stores (stores hate this one simple trick). If you're caught and your specific actions are then adjudicated to be illegal, at that point you can just start making a plan to bring the items back (even if some are used/damaged/etc) and everything is fine. In reality of course, the actions were illegal the whole time. The big festering problem is that there…

Definitely some problems in the current system, broad and creeping executive overreach extending back decades now. Pretty sure stealing from stores is already illegal, not sure I understand your analogy... lots of case law / precedent there.

The existence of case law / precedent does not affect whether something is "already illegal", but rather only how strongly one can predict if something is illegal. The original tariffs were illegal from day 1.

The point of the analogy was exactly to point at something with a lot of case law where this dynamic is crystal clear (although if Trump starts petty shoplifting after he's done looting our government, it's even odds whether this corrupt "court" will find some way to excuse it. Anything for the cause, of course)

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#830

Post by red-iron-pine »

adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #817
red-iron-pine wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the 100 mile limit was chosen because its ~2 hour drive at 60mph, assuming some stop lights and on-ramps. someone jumps the fence or is smuggled in via truck, etc., then CBP has maybe a couple hours to track them.

So glibly handing over your rights, and even going out of your way to defend it. It’s a little more annoying coming from the country that goes on and on about its freedom.

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