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Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

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Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#821

Post by mikkupikku »

Razengan wrote: post #818
mikkupikku wrote: post #813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's genuinely pathetic to care about downvotes. People downvote me all the time and you don't hear me crying about it. People disagreeing with you is simply the price you pay when you decide to have hot takes, and don't say you didn't understand this up front.

You'd have to be f'n dumb to think anybody cares about votes, if it was just votes. No it fucking hides the comment and prevents you from replying for a while. And it's so one sided: If just the first 3-5 people who see your comment downvote it, it can prevent hundreds or thousands from seeing it. Way too easy to bury the truth and sometimes used that way. And look: I downvoted you but you can't downvote me, because…

Going gray gets more eyeballs on your comment than if you were to stay at 1, people will actually stop and read whatever it was that's so controversial. You really are caring far too much.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#822

Post by Gareth321 »

corndoge wrote: post #746

I still don't understand what openclaw is or does and i've read the docs multiple times over. "Any OS gateway for AI agents across WhatsApp, Telegram, Discord, iMessage, and more. Send a message, get an agent response from your pocket. Plugins add Mattermost and more." "What is OpenClaw? OpenClaw is a self-hosted gateway that connects your favorite chat apps — WhatsApp, Telegram, Discord, iMessage, and more — to AI c…

It was surprisingly difficult for me to understand the use case as well. Here is my best attempt at an elevator pitch:

At present your memories are proprietary data in whichever LLM you use. ChatGPT keeps all your conversations and output and data forever. What if you don't like GPT 5.2? What if you want to use other models as well? Or use the best model for the job? OpenClaw gives you that ability. Your memories and conversations are permanently stored wherever you choose. [Note: this doesn't mean your data isn't also being stored in whichever LLM you routed your queries through.]

Secondly, OpenClaw allows you to integrate with whichever services you like. Google, Microsoft, etc. ChatGPT locks you into whichever integrations they offer. You can give OpenClaw full systems access. It can monitor files, emails, network, etc. Obviously one should be very cautious of giving an autonomous algorithm full system access. We don't fully understand how they are motivated and work, and there are plenty of examples of unexpected outcomes.

Third, OpenClaw allows you to run your models as agents. Meaning perpetual and iterative. They can much better handle recurring tasks, monitor things, etc. In a sense, they're "alive" and can live however you program them. We already have examples of these agents creating an AI religion, an AI social network (which debated how to keep humans out using a human captcha), attempting to legally separate from their creators, and in one case called its owner on the phone, unprompted, just to say hi (https://www.fintechbrainfood.com/p/the-ai-that-called-its-hu...).

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#823

Post by mejutoco »

cobertos wrote: post #549
mejutoco wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any website could in theory provide api access. But websites do not want this in general: remember google search api? Agents will run into similar restrictions for some cases as apis. It is not a technical problem imo, but an incentives one.

Can you explain how Google Search API fits into your point? I don't know enough about it

If I want to use google search in an automated way google does not want it. They prefer to show me ads. This applies to apis or agents. If google does not want that they will add friction by removing api access or making it difficult to use agents (fingerprinting, 2fa, captchas, etc)

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#824

Post by mejutoco »

daxfohl wrote: post #555
mejutoco wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any website could in theory provide api access. But websites do not want this in general: remember google search api? Agents will run into similar restrictions for some cases as apis. It is not a technical problem imo, but an incentives one.

The rules have changed though. They blocked api access because it helped competitors more than end users. With claws, end users are going to be the ones demanding it. I think it means front-end will be a dead end in a year or two.

My point is that the underlying incentives are exactly the same. I dont think the rules have changed at all. If you are expedia you could always give an api to search forhotels, but why commoditize yourself? Same with agents.

Ryanair recently had a court case with some meta travel website because they were selling their flights. Ryanair wants to sell you the insurance and extras, and they can only do so controlling the experience.

My prediction is, like apis, there will be some years of extra access for agents, followed by locking moats for their own experience.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#825

Post by [deleted] »

rvz wrote: post #704
aeve890 wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Managers will be starting to ask for claws in the development flow, claws for automation, etc. Another flashy trend everyone will have to endure because an influencer is hyping the tech. It happened in 2024/2025. Every manager demanding use of "vibe coding", because they bought the lie that is what everyone is doing and is the best thing since sliced bread and whatnot. Karpathy comes up with a new shit to hype, and e…

Well said. Remember MCPs? I don't.

[deleted]

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#826

Post by tines »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #750
sleight42 wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the Claw is powered by an LLM provider whose underlying model may not align with your priorities? Do I understand that correctly?

That's right. And don't forget that the chips it runs on are manufactured by companies I might not agree with. Nor the mining companies that got the metal. Nor the energy company that powers it. The wonderful thing about markets that work is that you can swap things out without being under their boot. I worry about a LLM duopology. But as long as open weight models are nipping at their heels, it is the consumer that…

> And don't forget that the chips it runs on are manufactured by companies I might not agree with. Nor the mining companies that got the metal. Nor the energy company that powers it.

You see that this is a non sequitur right? No matter who makes the chips or mines the metal or supplies the power, the behavior of the thing won't be affected. That isn't the case when we're talking about who's training the LLM that's running your shit.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#827

Post by habinero »

squidbeak wrote: post #424
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is absolute madness. I disabled most of Windows' scheduled tasks because I don't want automation messing up my system, and now I'm supposed to let LLM agents go wild on my data? That's just insane. Insanity. Edit: I mean, it's hard to believe that people who consider themselves as being tech savvy (as I assume most HN users do, I mean it's "Hacker" news) are fine with that sort of thing. What is a person…

> and now I'm supposed to let LLM agents go wild on my data? Who is forcing you to do that? The people you are amazed by know their own minds and understand the risks.

> and understand the risks

I'm very unconvinced this is true. Ignorance causes overconfidence.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#828

Post by aeve890 »

mikkupikku wrote: post #814
aeve890 wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Managers will be starting to ask for claws in the development flow, claws for automation, etc. Another flashy trend everyone will have to endure because an influencer is hyping the tech. It happened in 2024/2025. Every manager demanding use of "vibe coding", because they bought the lie that is what everyone is doing and is the best thing since sliced bread and whatnot. Karpathy comes up with a new shit to hype, and e…

Stop taking work so seriously. You're getting paid to deal with other people's nonsense, and if you're in tech you're getting paid better than most to deal with less than most. The next time you're about to have a cry session about your meanie boss asking you to use AI, try to remember that you're allowed to walk straight out the door, without so much as two weeks notice if the request is really so offensive to you.…

Fuck. thanks for the reality check. Sometimes this cozy job makes me lost perspective. Damn I feel stupid right now.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#829

Post by krzyk »

corndoge wrote: post #746

I still don't understand what openclaw is or does and i've read the docs multiple times over. "Any OS gateway for AI agents across WhatsApp, Telegram, Discord, iMessage, and more. Send a message, get an agent response from your pocket. Plugins add Mattermost and more." "What is OpenClaw? OpenClaw is a self-hosted gateway that connects your favorite chat apps — WhatsApp, Telegram, Discord, iMessage, and more — to AI c…

I had exact same issue with it. I don't get it.

Integration of LLM with chating services is simple, how does it change anything?

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#830

Post by infecto »

kristopolous wrote: post #816
RamblingCTO wrote: post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So creating skills/MCP servers itself and basically change its own nature is not a new thing? Clawdbot was the first were it worked really well. So I'm not sure you actually used and experienced it? Cynical comment is what it is.

No it's not a new thing. Agents coding their own mcp servers I saw in the original demo of MCP when it was announced in 2024. The other thing is part of the plan&act mode paradigm that plandex also started in 2024. I'm not a cynic, I just follow the scene very closely. This stuff might be new to you, but it's not new. There's literally nothing that this thing is doing that I haven't been doing for a few years already…

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