Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

821–830 of 915 posts

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#821

Post by 0xffff2 »

WorldMaker wrote: post #733
themafia wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The incumbent auto makers understand fully that the ICE version of whatever model they electrify will suffer enormously. So you're saying they make _less_ profit on the EVs? That seems dubious. > They believe that they can somehow retain all of the sales of the existing ICE model while adding growth sales of a different electric model. Well.. precisely. Isn't the solution to make the EVs more profitable than the IC…

Dealers certainly make less profit on EVs. The Dealer model was built around regular, required maintenance schedules as profit centers. EVs have far fewer moving parts and fluids with regular maintenance schedules. Dealers are incentivized to sell more ICE than EVs for the good of their own profits. Ford and GM unfortunately can't cannibalize their relationship with dealers under current American regulations and so w…

>Dealers certainly make less profit on EVs. The Dealer model was built around regular, required maintenance schedules as profit centers. EVs have far fewer moving parts and fluids with regular maintenance schedules.

Is there any data out there on what percentage of new car buyers take their vehicle to the dealer for maintenance? I've found myself in a position where I can't do my own maintenance for the first time in many years, and after waiting 3 hours for an oil change 3 different time at 3 different dealers I doubt I'll ever hand my keys to a dealer service department ever again for any non-warranty work. And this is on top of their extortionate pricing.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#822

Post by hamdingers »

interestpiqued wrote: post #810
hamdingers wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The auto industry has spent billions of dollars on propaganda to convince Americans they need a big truck for their self image. They have done this because big trucks are by far the most profitable segment of vehicle, and emissions regulations reward vehicles for being large.

I always find this talking point so weird. Trucks are great and people want them. There is no ultimate truth here where people can't see the light and evil corporations are making us buy trucks. Theyre making trucks because we want them. I love mine, and admittedly don't really "need" it.

This is a fun reply because the easy flippant response is "okay then the propaganda got you." Something neither of us can prove or refute.

Pickup trucks are popular in the US and the Americas broadly where they are heavily marketed. Pickup trucks are less popular in places where they are not marketed as heavily. Even outside the auto industry, there is a general consensus that marketing works. Make of that observation what you will.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#823

Post by ActorNightly »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #782
ActorNightly wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>s in the only practical reason to buy an ICE F-150 will be noise. And the ability to keep the truck at 80 mph without ever worrying about range. Which is why a pure EV truck designed for actual hauling will never work.

>Which is why a pure EV truck designed for actual hauling will never work. So there are 5 other "pure" EVs with class IV or V hauling capability for sale, and many SUVs. What does "actual hauling" mean?

Hauling capability is being able to tow safely. Thats the bare minimum. The other big thing is how often do you have to stop for gas. If you are towing a car trailer for example, you have quite a bit of drag. No matter what the power train is, your mileage goes down. Then you introduce things like mountain passes into the mix, and your mileage goes down.

With EV you have to stop and wait to recharge, and at the mercy of the chargers being available.

If battery cells and interfaces were standardized every single gas station had ability to swap cells, then it would work. But we are far, far away from that.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#824

Post by ActorNightly »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #780
ActorNightly wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure its fine, but like a basic Toyota interior is quite a lot better than anything Tesla has. Its pretty obvious where they cut costs.

Strongly disagree. I find the materials in Teslas to be perfectly fine, and the aesthetic itself is basically unsurpassed, but I'm a big fan of minimalism and hate the 8 million buttons and dials some cars have, which I think is really just driving home (hah) that these are all subjective opinions and not of it is fact so we maybe shouldn't state it as such

Its not subjective that buttons are better for driver interface. Being able to change AC/Volume/whatever without having to look where you are pressing is a big convenience.

If Tesla had a good heads up display on the windshield that you can operate through steering wheel controls, then it would be another story.

Other then that, its also not subjective that materials that are used are sub par. Steering wheels start to peel WAY early.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#825

Post by doctorpangloss »

themafia wrote: post #386
doctorpangloss wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a really bad consumer market right now, and also, we have enough cars.

The vehicle has been in production for almost 5 years now. See the date on that video. Vehicles break and get damaged and need replacement so we always need to build them. Newer ones are also more efficient and provide greater safety and overall benefits to the owner. People's needs change and family sizes change. You may perceive that there's "enough" but the market has clearly decided that you are wrong.

it's a stylistic comment haha. it's not that lamentable that something is being discontinued, and i don't know what it says generally except, "too expensive" maybe.

the market is for people who buy cars, not for people who need cars. most new cars shipping today are a stack of regulations, like road and parking subsidies, safety features, emissions standards, and most of all import quotas, decorated with marketing, financing and post-sale monetization scheme shapes. if you really wanted to innovate in the car "product" for the audience that actually buys cars, imo you should focus on figuring out how to sell parking up front and affordably, whatever that means. if you are only focusing on stuff for people who buy cars - i don't think people who buy cars really care that much about today's USPs and things that hacker news cares about like energy.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#826

Post by dpark »

ghaff wrote: post #819
dpark wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish my minivan was 2 inches higher and all wheel drive. I’m not sure how much I’d want to adventure in my front wheel drive low clearance van. It’s a great vehicle for most practical cases, though it is not very fuel efficient.

A lot of standard SUVs don't have particularly great ground clearance relative to Jeep Wranglers and the like. Though that doesn't really matter unless you're going off-road in Death Valley and the like. The current Toyota Sienna (which has improved a lot) is better than my Honda Passport in terms on gas mileage.

Yeah. I don’t really need or want high ground clearance. But I would like enough that parking at a curb doesn’t risk dragging the front bumper. My van (Odyssey) is low enough that I’ve scraped on a few unexpectedly tall curbs and I would be pretty uncomfortable with anything resembling off-road. I wouldn’t drive my van anywhere I wouldn’t drive a Civic.

> The current Toyota Sienna … gas mileage.

Better mileage and optional all wheel drive were the only things I preferred about the Sienna. But while I don’t like the mileage the Odyssey gets, I also don’t actually drive far very often so it doesn’t matter much. I put less than 10k miles on my car every year.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#827

Post by ericd »

WorldMaker wrote: post #726
ericd wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like EV trucks need the ability to do the equivalent of siphoning gas, or carrying some Jerry cans.

Level 1 and 2 charging are something of an equivalent to siphoning gas, and maybe too easily overlooked. Carry a wall plug and dryer plug adapter and you can plug in just about anywhere. RV plug in the camping area of a national park. Utility plug on the back of a work shed in the middle of nowhere. Won't charge you fast, sure, but can be the difference to charge you enough to make it to the next stop, in some cases.

Yeah, I meant siphon gas truck-to-truck, but it seems most worksites would be wired or have generation of some sort, so mobile charger should be able to do something in a pinch. I have had situations where a normal 1400W wasn’t enough to keep pace with keeping the battery warm enough to make any headway on an actual charge, though, but that remote AND cold is a another level.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#828

Post by ericd »

ActorNightly wrote: post #759
ericd wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like EV trucks need the ability to do the equivalent of siphoning gas, or carrying some Jerry cans.

Or you know, PUT A FUCKING GAS GENERATOR IN A GIANT BED THAT YOU HAVE OUT BACK. Im legit suprised this isn't a thing yet. I saw the Rivian gear tunnel when it got first announced, and I was almost sure that they are gonna offer a generator+fuel tank to fit into there for range extension. You can do an efficient diesel or multi gas 1 Cyl engine, and you can make a system where you can put one or 2 of them in the bed a…

Haha yeah, Jerry cans plus genny seems like it might do it.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#829

Post by tonymet »

iknowstuff wrote: post #401
tonymet wrote: post #330

$20b capital write down means that consumers paid that much more for all vehicles to subsidize redundant and insolvent EV product lines . Tesla is the only company making money off of these products . People keep complaining about the AI bubble but we sustained an EV bubble for 15 years without it popping .

EVs are >30% of the global car market and rapidly rising. There is no bubble. America is a bubble of lagging OEMs.

that seems off

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#830

Post by qingcharles »

theshrike79 wrote: post #811
interestpiqued wrote: post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find this talking point so weird. Trucks are great and people want them. There is no ultimate truth here where people can't see the light and evil corporations are making us buy trucks. Theyre making trucks because we want them. I love mine, and admittedly don't really "need" it.

People only want them because of the stupid loophole that lets vehicles over a certain weight bypass regulations. If the massive cars cost what they should, people wouldn't buy them as much.

In Chicago there were a lot of major roads where driving a pick-up truck was illegal.
Post reply on HN