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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#821
A mostly philosophical comment:

I would say something like "the issue is that 'people' are underestimating how many ugly characters there are, in the private as well in the corporate spheres" but that doesn't mean much anymore because people adapt against their interest just to display competence. "Ugly business practices" have become the norm.

It even trickled down into culture via funny little behavioral nudges like "nett is das neue Scheisse" (German for something like “Being ‘nice’ is the new way to be awful.” or "Nice is the new toxic." but mostly meant to say "Politeness is the new bullshit."). I'm quite certain it was a clever mid-term Machiavellian marketing play which paved the high speed Autobahn for the Right Wing and faux-cause refugee aid and further downstream also the acceptance of misinformation about the escalated and long ignored civil conflict in Ukraine. But that's a long stretch and beside the point.

Regulations serve to keep the balance. Rules can be broken. Linguistics and just being a horny fucking human create more loopholes and blind spots than anyone can count and this dynamic evolves and becomes more complex.

When it seems like you have to choose between a police state and a state which allows "AI companies to legally use personal data to train AI models", meaning unrestricted, unhinged economical practices that will have it even easier to get into teen heads and all the minds who just don't have the time and energy to evolve after a 9-5 day to raise their kids with abilities to defend against all the ugly bullshit that ugly business practices use to advance their proprietary propaganda(s) while the civil weight that is supposed to balance and positively offset the resulting negatives--the counter-movement, the counter force--is reduced to a motherfucking s k e l e t o n that our current civil society is, which can barely hold it's own few pounds, because too many people are busy being more productive and efficient or are numbing their brains with some drugs or meds and doom-scrolling or something with the content-creator economy or something else "with media", meaning when they are literally working for the other side against their own interest because it's cooler, then we all will get both, a police state with a subscription model for tickets out of jail, court as well as an economy that doesn't have to nudge and prime and co-evolve with customers, workers, employees, citizens, people anymore, because the law permits reverse lobotomies, marketing campaigns that create new needs and new desires via straight injection into your brains, including all the good PR that turns the bad PR into nothing but showmastership.

Our intelligence agencies, police and judicial representatives of the people are constantly looking away because citizens don't point the spear at what the tip already knows. Our law and the maintainers of justice should have evolved to investigate way more than they have done and they continue to disappoint.

The people have been misinformed, deceived, nudged, primed, exhausted for decades and with inter-generational effects, where the old don't defend and protect the minds of the young and the young then hijack the minds of the old or tire them out additionally and vice versa. Everybody just thinks or feels and perceives that "this the world", "this is the way" when it's the opposite, the absence of critical thought in your own interest. "They" (whatever that means to you), are selfish against all your interests while selling you their interests and how they want you to be.

Dramatic emphasis: THERE MUST BE BALANCE. And shoving the people back on the right side, not by moving them directly, which would be "fiddling with them" as much as ugly corporate and smaller business people do, but by offsetting and countering, HACKING corporate "dark patterns", ugly business practices (and I don't mean shiny buttons and countdowns), for HACKINGS sake.

If I hadn't been fucking poisoned and spiked god fucking how many times and had my brain been capable of recovering from that shit a bit fucking quicker, I'd be on the fucking frontlines of all that obvious, ridiculous fucking shit. I don't believe so many of you just roll with this shit because you are ok with it. How is all that not exactly the hacking challenge, the systems design challenge you are looking for? So many are doing so much on small scales and with tiny projects. Where is the hell is the weight. It has nothing to do with behavioral locks. You can remain in that lock, the world has chosen. BUT THAT IS NOT IT.

There are a lot of you who know and see and who were not poisoned and whose feet were not fucking poured into concrete bullshit and walled in by a jealous wannabe-fathist-coping-with-inferiority-instead-of-actively-evolving-others-to-evolve-their-offspring pthycho-thothial environment ...

"I don't care, I'm just doing my thing, you know ..." (which is not his thing but it got him that marshmallow and there's this thing previous generations, who believe that "history repeats" while the people writing it advance their interests, can't teach you because it's covered in new language, memetics, symbols, which are hidden behind misinformation enough other, slightly younger people are perfectly aware of but keep lying to themselves want their abilities enable them to do, but they are just doing their thing, which is not their thing but it gets them that marshmallow ...) only leads to the propagation of proprietary agendas, the results of which, if not offset properly, will be disliked adequately, way way way too late. I don't know what means exactly, but I know that enough of you have those conversations all the time and a lot of it was spelled out in various books; in fiction, science-fiction and more than enough of it in historical and current non-fiction.

I'm just wondering.

I could have said something about constraints, self-organizing systems and organic emergence of cultural phenomena via the non-linear propagation of imperative regulations between co-evolving colonies that are reaching for a state that maximizes the architectural potential of all areas of civilization for the sake of the minimum amount of conflict necessary to ensure survival and thriving in a changing world, which requires just enough friction and oil to keep the temperature down, but you all know that.

Someone smart, published, internationally recognized, and with humble origins in a current or former war zone, I believe, once noted that the middle class/ middle working class needs be heard so that their perspective can be accounted for when dealing with and for a world--and future, full of uncertainty, colorful swans, emerging and re-emerging constraints, calculated probabilities of instability in the various areas affected by climate change (the fact, not the debate), and so on ... well, above are some bits to start with.

The sentences "What the fuck are you serious? Give my kind time and the peace of mind to raise my children in a way that offsets some of the bullshit systematically taught in schools off-curriculum and they will help you. You need help. This is wrong, pathetic, only funny if you are drunk or drugged and in a particularly sassy mood that makes even the help- and hopeless feel cool and powerful. If we did our jobs like you do yours, everything would burn." kind of sum up some more bits ...

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU citizens: WE DEMAND XYZ PROTECTIONS EU: WE SHALL BUILD XYZ FOR EVERYONE (years pass) EU citizens: WE HATE XYZ PROTECTIONS

Who demanded cookie banners?

The companies trying to persuade you to click "Accept All".

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#823
post #408
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations are like lines of code in a software project. They're good if well written, bad if not, and what matters more is how well they fit into the entire solution

A major difference with regulations is there’s no guaranteed executor of those metaphorical lines of code. If the law gets enforced, then yes, but if nobody enforces it, it loses meaning.

Not only in the executive/enforcement, but in the actual impact of the regulation in practice as applied by millions in a distributed system. Regulations influence decision paths as opposed to encoding deterministic code paths.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#824
post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>latest report pointed out that overregulation is a major problem in the EU and costs EU companies the equivalent of a 50% tariff (if I remember correctly). Of course. Normally I'm against overrgulation, but when it comes to privacy more fine for big corp is need if ANY violation is found. Rather NOT have AI than compromise on privacy.

"I'm against overrgulation, but when it comes to privacy" Our ancestors survived perfectly fine with telephone directories dropped at every house for free which contained everyone's name and address. Are you sure someone knowing your address is that bad?

How about "we store your precise geolocation with all associated device ids, travel and purchasing habits across all areas of your life for a decade and sell it/share it with thousands of other entities"? https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1817122117093056541

It's bo longer just "your home address".

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#825
AI seems like the real deal. I have never seen a technology so quickly and aggressively adopted in corporate america -- every ceo is horny to adopt ai, thinking it will cut costs (read that to mean: "replace you").

They did not have the same fervor for SaaS or cloud, if you recall. You needed sales people for that tech and they were compensated well bc its hard closing a multi year, potentially multi million dollar deal.

But AI needs no sales people to sell its value prop. CEOs have fully bought in. And now, even European bureaucrats, the most bureaucratic of bureaucrats, are loosing regulations. And these are the same group of people who thought cookie banners would help with privacy. Strange times.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#826

The fundamental problem in Europe is the perception that companies are inherently ill-intentioned, requiring micro-management through massive bureaucracy. It is a moralising and irresponsible attitude that older people can afford to adopt, but like so many other things, it hits younger generations mercilessly hard.

Ehmmm... If we learnt something in the past century, it is that companies don't have morals because they are not real persons. And even the real persons running them may be legally liable to the shareholders if they act based on their personal morality.

So, yes, the default should be that companies are inherently ill-intentioned to society, because that gets them an unfair advantage and gets more "value to the shareholders".

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#827
post #684
post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>latest report pointed out that overregulation is a major problem in the EU and costs EU companies the equivalent of a 50% tariff (if I remember correctly). Of course. Normally I'm against overrgulation, but when it comes to privacy more fine for big corp is need if ANY violation is found. Rather NOT have AI than compromise on privacy.

Interesting that you have privacy so high on your list of priorities. The general public usually considers other small thing like "cost" and "convenience" when thinking about privacy. Most of us actually don't mind losing a little privacy to read a news article when faced with the alternative of paying money or that news website ceasing to exist at all. But, hey, keep pushing your warped privacy sense onto all of us,…

Define "small amount of privacy". Is this a small amount: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45992452?

BTW, when presented with clear non-dark-pattern choice 96% of people opt-out of "losing a little privacy": https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/96-of-us-users-opt-o...

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#828
I'm not understanding, as an European who's been part of multiple startups how's that supposed to boost growth.

There's literally 0 startups I've been part of where data protection laws or even the infamous cookie banners have been anywhere near relevant (unless your business was literally profiling).

In fact the actors that most opposed those laws have always been non Europeans.

Sure, there is an attached cost in having your terms reviewed by a proper lawyer and documenting the entire list of cookie providers, but that's basically where it ends. It's really minimal effort and cost, we talking in the low single digits for the review, and few hours of engineering time.

The biggest issues in European growth are others:

- focus on being an export economy while neglecting the internal market.

- bureaucracy to fight at European level so we still don't have a real unified market, neither in physical goods (our economy's backbone) nor services which doesn't allow national startups to scale at European level

- very conservative and risk-adverse mentality. Young people in college can't wait to graduate and find the best paying lowest effort stable job. That's not a problem if it involves a majority of graduates, I imagine all world is like that, but you do have an immense problem if you have 1% or 3% or 10% of wannabe entrepreneurs.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#829
post #691
post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok let’s take this at face value. Not being able to use child labor is a 40%+ tariff. What have we gained by framing it as such other than an extremely biased take pro unregulated business?

Such unhinged takes are one of the reasons EU has fallen behind so much. Nobody is arguing for child labor. We are just fighting for the right to build startups without worrying about reading hundred-page regulation manuals and having to hire "compliance officers" before even turning a profit. Yeah, regulation generally tries to do good but that is going to be little consolation when EU's economy will go broke becaus…

> We are just fighting for the right to build startups without worrying about reading hundred-page regulation manuals and having to hire "compliance officers" before even turning a profit.

Oh no. How are you going to build your new ChatGPT wrapper without selling user data to thousands of "privacy-preserving partners"?

GDPR (and a very small number of other applicable regulations) are somewhere between place 1000 and 1500 of things that hinder startups. And unless you are a complete moron those regulations will maybe apply to you when you reach 10 million+ users.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#830
post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how the CCTV would have prevented the bike theft?

Yeah, I can tell you that the only thing CCTV does is making the thief wear hoodies. And you get some clips of them carrying expensive bikes around the corner out of CCTV range to their parked transporter.

Even without hoodie… who was it? Some dude.
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