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Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

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Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#821

Post by breppp »

johnisgood wrote: post #820
breppp wrote: post #815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might read that the Army has failed to notify the Senate, creating false reports on the amount of chemical weapons found in Iraq, thus reaching the conclusion the war had no valid pretext. While 5000 (an underestimate) warheads is enough to kill ten of thousands of people, by a country who had used these previously. The fact that the shells are corroded does not mean the material cannot be removed and reused, and…

This is going to be my last response to this thread as it is quite unproductive because you work backward from conclusions, reshaping evidence to fit your predetermined beliefs rather than following where evidence actually leads, AND you are not engaging with my substantive points but instead you cycle through different justifications while mischaracterizing evidence. In fact, your "false truism" is ironic given your…

Chemical weapons are not "technically" WMD, the entire discussion around WMD at the time concentrated on chemical weapons.

I suggest you read about UNSCOM and UNMOVIC, what they were looking for (hint: chemical weapons), their struggles at achieving their mandates due to Iraqi manipulations, and how it led to the 2003 war.

I have not moved the goal posts, from the first reply to you I maintained Iraq had used WMDs in the past and was in breach of the 1991 terms by maintaining a very large stockpile, thus making the pretext valid (let's put aside laboratories that were not dismantled).

You say these are "scattered" but 5,000 warheads (again underestimated) is a larger stockpile than most of the world, making Iraq in 2003 having one of the largest amount of WMD warheads in existence.

Thus the conventional truth that you echoed "No WMDs were found in Iraq" is completely false

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#822

Post by grafmax »

ajuc wrote: post #531
grafmax wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That presumes some kind of just system imprisoning the husband. In fact the US pursues its power and wealth, supporting dictatorships and undermining democracies to the degree it believes doings so benefits its special interests and geopolitical calculus. Even to the point instituting famine against children in horrific genocide which is happening today. Yet US hegemony is collapsing. It is simply running out of the…

Russia invades Ukraine. The West puts Russia in economic prison. Russians suffer. US is only a part of the system. Even if you remove US from the picture - EU alone would continue to sanction Russia.

Sanctions against Russia only are somewhat effective with BRICS. Without the US, sanctions lose even more of their power.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#823

Post by johnisgood »

breppp wrote: post #821
johnisgood wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going to be my last response to this thread as it is quite unproductive because you work backward from conclusions, reshaping evidence to fit your predetermined beliefs rather than following where evidence actually leads, AND you are not engaging with my substantive points but instead you cycle through different justifications while mischaracterizing evidence. In fact, your "false truism" is ironic given your…

Chemical weapons are not "technically" WMD, the entire discussion around WMD at the time concentrated on chemical weapons. I suggest you read about UNSCOM and UNMOVIC, what they were looking for (hint: chemical weapons), their struggles at achieving their mandates due to Iraqi manipulations, and how it led to the 2003 war. I have not moved the goal posts, from the first reply to you I maintained Iraq had used WMDs in…

> "Chemical weapons are not "technically" WMD, the entire discussion around WMD at the time concentrated on chemical weapons."

False. The Bush administration's case centered on mobile biological weapons labs, aluminum tubes for nuclear centrifuges, and claims of active production facilities. Colin Powell's UN presentation focused heavily on alleged bio-weapons and nuclear programs. Chemical weapons were a minor part of the overall WMD narrative.

> "I suggest you read about UNSCOM and UNMOVIC, what they were looking for (hint: chemical weapons), their struggles at achieving their mandates due to Iraqi manipulations, and how it led to the 2003 war."

UNMOVIC chief Hans Blix reported in March 2003 - just before invasion - that inspectors found NO evidence of active WMD programs. UNSCOM had already dismantled Iraq's major chemical production facilities by 1998. The "Iraqi manipulations" were about concealing historical records of past programs, not hiding active ones.

> "I have not moved the goal posts, from the first reply to you I maintained Iraq had used WMDs in the past and was in breach of the 1991 terms by maintaining a very large stockpile"

You absolutely moved goalposts. You started claiming these finds proved WMDs existed, then shifted to "chemical weapons are WMDs," then "UN violations justified invasion." Past use in the 1980s was already known and irrelevant to 2003 invasion claims about active programs.

???

> "5,000 warheads (again underestimated) is a larger stockpile than most of the world, making Iraq in 2003 having one of the largest amount of WMD warheads in existence."

Absurd. Many were empty, corroded, or non-functional 1980s remnants. Countries with active nuclear arsenals, operational chemical weapons, and biological programs had vastly greater WMD capabilities than scattered degraded shells.

> "Thus the conventional truth that you echoed "No WMDs were found in Iraq" is completely false"

The truth is that no active WMD programs were found (as per every source you have mentioned, even), which is what the invasion was predicated on. Your own source explicitly states these finds "did not support the government's invasion rationale".

Seriously, you trigger me with your absurdity and logical incoherence. sighs.

I replied for other people, but you are on your own now. Take your own suggestions and execute them.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#824

Post by fransje26 »

danlitt wrote: post #749
fransje26 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the Communists, [..] https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-nie...

Are you for real? Being unable to access github is not exactly comparable to rounding people up to be murdered.

Historically, the rounding-up were not meant to straight-up murder people, but to get rid of undesirables..

Now, if we read the original parent post wrote:

> [..] the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal prison. [..] you, the manager or executive in charge, and anyone else who is in the know on the transaction is now facing 20 years in federal pounding-in-the-ass prison if they don't immediately cease all communication and break off contact

That sounds a lot closer to "rounding-up" than "a strong attempt to prevent technology transfers supporting unwanted regimes."

Now for the kicker. Taking into context the US developments of the past 9 months, the people affected by such legal threats are a lot closer to the indiscriminate "rounding people up" part than to the "balanced and reasonable legal consequences" part.

Just a small thing to ponder about before blurting out things such as

> I am not going to risk 20 years in prison for something realistically nobody is going to care about

Yesterday, one might not have cared about communists being rounded up, today it might be "illegal" migrants being ICEed up, who knows what it will be tomorrow.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#825

Post by padjo »

tgma wrote: post #766
YC984983427 wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proroguing in parliaments is nothing new or anti-democratic. Canada had its parliament prorogued for the first 4 months of this year yet I didn't see calls for violent US-backed regime change and political suppression like there was under the American puppet Shah. Same with deposing a monarch (getting rid of monarchy is "anti-democratic" now?). More information on the "Iranian golden age of prosperity" you mentioned:…

> Proroguing in parliaments is nothing new or anti-democratic. He prorogued the parliament and was calling for a referendum to overthrow the monarchy against the Constitution. He was terminated by the monarch per Constitution, but he would not leave the post which resulted in uprising from both sides. > During that time two monarchs — Reza Shah Pahlavi and his son Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi — employed secret police,…

Strange that a massive revolution would break out in a country in the midst of such a golden era.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#826

Post by sfn42 »

int_19h wrote: post #797
sfn42 wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well ideally they should peacefully replace the government with one that aligns with the people's alleged views. Failing that, I don't know. I guess they'll have to figure it out as they go. All I'm saying is it's their country, their responsibility. And for example in the case of Russia there's clearly widespread support for Putin and his war so I'm not really expecting nor calling for them to do anything about it.…

> And for example in the case of Russia there's clearly widespread support for Putin and his war so I'm not really expecting nor calling for them to do anything about it. I'm just saying I hold them responsible Yes, there is widespread support for Putin and his war - but by this very reason , how can Russians who do not support Putin and his war can be held responsible for it? What do you expect this minority to do,…

The coherent them is the entire population. Sure some of them are for and some are against, that's how it works. Just because you didn't vote for Trump doesn't make you immune to the negative effects of electing Trump.

These things affect everyone, that's why we all have a responsibility.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#827

Post by sfn42 »

nemothekid wrote: post #748
sfn42 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always say stuff like this, but from my pov it doesn't matter what the populace thinks. They are directly supporting their government with everything they do. They are producing goods and services, they are the army, they are the government, the people are the country. They have the power to choose who rules them if they want to. Nobody else does. Iranians are responsible for Iran's actions just like Russians…

This is a historically ignorant take, especially when you consider the country being talked about is Iran. As an American it's very easy to assume that a "government revolution" is something that can executed by the will of the people. Iran had a democratic government. That democratic government voted to do something against Britian's economic interests. In response America dissolved it's government. If I lived in a…

We all have history. It's not long ago that a lot of us Europeans did some pretty messed up stuff. We got over it and now we're all holding hands and such. Except for the damn Russians of course, because we can't just be friends and have nice things, someone has to ruin it for everyone.

I don't care what your history is. I care what you're doing now, and if what you're doing now is killing people over 80 year old beef (or anything else really) then I have absolutely no respect for you nor your history. Get over it, move forward. War should be a thing of the past at this point, we all share one planet.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#828

Post by sfn42 »

kelnos wrote: post #764
sfn42 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always say stuff like this, but from my pov it doesn't matter what the populace thinks. They are directly supporting their government with everything they do. They are producing goods and services, they are the army, they are the government, the people are the country. They have the power to choose who rules them if they want to. Nobody else does. Iranians are responsible for Iran's actions just like Russians…

Actually, the US is responsible for Iran's actions. We're the ones who meddled in their government and pushed them to the point they're at today. Regardless, it's laughable to think that regular Iranian citizens are just as responsible for their theocratic dictatorship as Americans are for the US's (crumbling) representative democracy. Those two things are not the same at all. Your average Iranian has zero influence…

So if your grandfather killed my great great aunt and I used that as justification for killing your niece, it would be your fault your niece is dead. Got it.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#829

Post by simianparrot »

somenameforme wrote: post #816
simianparrot wrote: post #813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any warfare hurts civilians. And there's no kinetic warfare that is guaranteed to not hit civilians. In fact we can observe how impossible that is all throughout the world, today. I'm fairly sure given the choice, civilians would rather their country be sanctioned than bombed. Obviously the best option is no conflict at all, but that's utopian.

The Lancet just released a study on this exact question. [1] From 1971 to 2021, "unilateral, economic, and US sanctions" were associated with some 564,258 deaths per year , disproportionately affecting children under 5, who are most sensitive to disruptions in healthcare or food. That's 1,544 deaths per day - for 30 years. By contrast as of August 31st 2025, the UN has assessed a total of 14,116 civilian deaths in Uk…

I'll put the blame on the sanctioned countries' leadership.

If Iran wants to avoid sanctions, all they have to do is not flirt with nuclear weapons.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#830

Post by simianparrot »

somenameforme wrote: post #784
simianparrot wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Iran has waged proxy wars on Americans, civilians and military personnel alike, for four decades. The countries are at war. It's just not kinetic, ie. with troops on the battlefield. That is reality. I know it sucks, but you can't expect the US to just let the threat be. It's not like US is alone in wanting to suppress Iran's threat anyway; you can blame most European countries for aiding in that suppression. I w…

Iran has not been attacking US civilians. This is nonsense. The best you're going to come up with there is the Iran hostage crisis. And what was that? That was when Iranian students stormed and occupied the US embassy, almost 50 years ago, demanding that the US extradite Mohammed Reza Pahlavi - the tyrant that the US had installed in Iran after overthrowing their government, who was then granted asylum after he was o…

They have by proxy, that's why I used that word specifically.
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