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GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

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Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#821

Post by alternatex »

okanat wrote: post #602
alternatex wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It supports Linux as a running target for console apps, which can be servers, background apps, systemd apps, etc. So everything except UI apps. The development experience with Rider is also great on Linux. I think you need to be more specific with the complaints because I have many beefs with Microsoft's approach to many things, but I could not pick up on what you meant.

You can use Avalonia to develop cross-platform apps with .NET. GUI stuff from Windows depends deeply on Win32 and how Windows's core APIs work. So expecting Microsoft to port stuff like .Net Windows Forms is meaningless. They are open source though. Maybe with some completion effort Wine can run them.

I'm an Avalonia UI user myself, but didn't want to mention it since Microsoft themselves have done nothing to contribute to its existence. The UI rendering for Avalonia on Linux is not a Microsoft technology so I think that praise should go to the Avalonia team and whoever is developing Skia (Google?).

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#822

Post by spacedcowboy »

timuckun wrote: post #681
kokanee wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment warrants a post in its own right: let's rank FAANG/M by evilness. Personally I've always been way more afraid of Google, because Microsoft's evil is just old-school capitalism, which is blatant, brash, and harder to ignore than to identify. Google feels like they are quietly and surreptitiously trying to pull the strings of the online economy in their favor, voraciously consuming the world's data behind…

Does google collect more information than Apple, Meta, Microsoft, OpenAI, Palantir etc? I don't think so. Collecting data is a baseline for all those companies, you have to rank the evil they do with that data.

Yes. Yes they do. Collecting data is most of the point of Google apps/services/devices.

Google then aggregate all that data in the cloud, whereas even if Apple do collect data it’s almost never sent to the cloud for cross-analysis, it’s almost always on-device and therefore private.

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#823

Post by m4rtink »

theptip wrote: post #307
827a wrote: post #163

My deepest concern at this time isn't that AI eventually gets written down to nothing; because I don't think it will. Its that these companies are so scared of being out-competed by an AI-first competitor that they're willing to make deep sacrifices to their core businesses just to effectively virtue signal that they're AI first and unable to be out-competed. It is deeply concerning because all things point to realit…

> Google has world-class research teams that have produced unbelievable models, without any plan at all on how those make it into their products beyond forcing a chat window into Google Drive. NotebookLM is a genuinely novel AI-first product. YouTube gaining an “ask a question about this video” button, this is a perfect example of how to sprinkle AI on an existing product. Extremely slow, but the obvious incremental…

If its really useful, how long do you think it will take Google to kill it ? ;-)

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#824

Post by preisschild »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #294
JohnTHaller wrote: post #3

GitHub will now fall under Microsoft's CoreAI team, which give some indication of GitHub's purpose and direction going forward.

I just switched from Github to Gitlab. For anyone who is interested in doing the same, but doubtful because of the effort required: Gitlab has a pretty good migration tool. You authenticate against your github account and gitlab will import all your repos for you. We've been using gitlab at work for a bit and the CI/CD took a little getting used to but I'm overall happy with Gitlab. Some people think a github presenc…

Gitlab seems to also be going into the "AI slop" direction, unfortunately, while core CI/CD features get sidelined...

Forgejo/Codeberg seems interesting

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#825

Post by dijit »

leptons wrote: post #706
SlowTao wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We certainly are in a predicament aren't we!? Now I am what you would consider a "Full Stallman" free software guy, but you can imagine my mixed feelings when I ended up being interviewed by Business Insider on why Microsoft shouldn't be giving up with web engine for a Chromium based browser. Yes, things like Safari are proprietary junk but they still keep things like Chrome dominance at bay. Alas I feel we are bette…

"Chrome dominance" isn't my concern, and it isn't the problem with Apple. The problem is Apple is intentionally hobbling their web browser and forcing every other browser maker to use it, which prevents web applications that use any kind of hardware API from functioning on iOS - the only alternative being making a native app for iOS where Apple can charge a significant amount for any purchases made through the native…

Eh, this is annoying because I agree with you in principle except there's a handful of things you're simply wrong about.

I'll start with the most eggregious one to save time so you can just click away but: Microsoft wasn't sued for bundling a browser, it was sued because it used one monopoly position to aid another. Apple mobile devices are 57% of the market in the US (which is the highest percentage globally from what I can tell at a glance) and a far cry from 1997 Windows which was a staggering 96%+ of all desktop operating systems in the US. That is a monopoly which is not explicitly forbidden in the US unless you use it to further domination in some other field: Web browsers were considered another field.

That said, while I agree with you in principle, in practice I really don't like the idea of a browser monoculture. We already see the effects of it with WebUSB (for real) and Manifestv3 which nobody really wants but is essentially foisted on us.

There are two types of people: those who think the web is an application delivery platform, and those who think it's a window into information.

The more leaky the sandbox the worse security will get over time (even if we put a lot of eggs into the basket) and the more bloated things will get. But the people in the first camp cannot see passed their next meal for want of a "better" application delivery system. Anything that keeps them at bay is welcome to me, even if it's something I also don't agree with.

The lesser devil.

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#826

Post by yard2010 »

meindnoch wrote: post #404
pjmlp wrote: post #84

I think that just like it happened with Apple after they made it out of bankruptcy, Microsoft being the cool guys phase is slowly over. Xamarin is no more, after the whole MAUI rewrite without backwards compatibility to Xamarin.Forms, killing VS4Mac, shortly after having rewriten the underlying Xamarin based IDE into Mac, what survives is a subset of Xamarin tech for mobile and WebAssembly workloads. .NET is now cros…

Microsoft being the cool guys? The cool guys ? Mwuhahahhaa. This gave me the good belly laugh I needed. For the last 25 years, Microsoft was known for: - being the no. 1 enemy of free software - shipping the worst web browser in existence, despite 80%+ market share - making corrupt deals with governments around the world to tie them to their office software suite - creating vendor-locked proprietary extensions to kil…

Can't they be forgiven? For taking the shit show JS was/is and turning it into magical TS?

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#827

Post by Xelbair »

meindnoch wrote: post #404
pjmlp wrote: post #84

I think that just like it happened with Apple after they made it out of bankruptcy, Microsoft being the cool guys phase is slowly over. Xamarin is no more, after the whole MAUI rewrite without backwards compatibility to Xamarin.Forms, killing VS4Mac, shortly after having rewriten the underlying Xamarin based IDE into Mac, what survives is a subset of Xamarin tech for mobile and WebAssembly workloads. .NET is now cros…

Microsoft being the cool guys? The cool guys ? Mwuhahahhaa. This gave me the good belly laugh I needed. For the last 25 years, Microsoft was known for: - being the no. 1 enemy of free software - shipping the worst web browser in existence, despite 80%+ market share - making corrupt deals with governments around the world to tie them to their office software suite - creating vendor-locked proprietary extensions to kil…

eh, they had short blip in the relatively recent history, especially with developers, in mid 2010s.

With dotnet core 1-3 - open source cross platform .net, that was modern, fresh and clearly a project done by developers for developers. add vscode to this and it seems nice.

but as soon as 5 hit, if you look into details, they went to their usual bullshit, starting with stapling together winforms and wpf to it. the feel of the project shifted from 'developers for developers' to usual top down management.

vscode is also a weird case - it looks open source, but isn't at all(the builds you get aren't just from the same codebase + no access to extensions legally if you build your own, or fork it)

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#828

Post by Lutger »

gmueckl wrote: post #435
meindnoch wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft being the cool guys? The cool guys ? Mwuhahahhaa. This gave me the good belly laugh I needed. For the last 25 years, Microsoft was known for: - being the no. 1 enemy of free software - shipping the worst web browser in existence, despite 80%+ market share - making corrupt deals with governments around the world to tie them to their office software suite - creating vendor-locked proprietary extensions to kil…

This comment comes some 15 years late. Microsoft runs the biggest org on github and has open sourced a lot of their own code under permissive licenses. IE has been dead and buried for ages. Edge doesn't have even close to the same market share and is based on Chromium. They build more and more of their own UIs on Electron. I honestly don't remember when they tried to snare someone to use proprietary extensions to som…

Not really. They still have the same sales tactic as they always have: make an inferior product that barely ticks the boxes, then manipulate everyone to ditch their competitors in all kinds of ways except for making a better product. These manipulative tactics are sometimes fair game, most are quite unethical and some even illegal.

You can make a product that pleases its users, or just cater to the interests of the ones with the buying decision, for enterprise users they are almost never the same. Microsoft, like Oracle, leans heavily on the second strategy. Their developer tools are often (not always) an exception to this principle. I think this is the true reason Microsoft is so disliked as a brand.

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#829

Post by roelschroeven »

radlad wrote: post #490
EGreg wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant Atom used to be the base, and now it's VSCode

VS Code was not based on Atom's code base.

What EGreg is saying is that most development environments and UX used to be based on Atom, while they are now based on VS Code.

EGreg didn't mean to say that VS Code used to be Atom, or is based on Atom, though I agree his wording was a bit ambiguous and it could be interpreted that way.

Re: GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation

#830

Post by Ygg2 »

fnord123 wrote: post #782
sevensor wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excel single-handedly redeems Microsoft from being a pure drain on human existence, but I can’t see what the point of the company is beyond that. Enterprise something something maybe. And declining literacy makes Powerpoint unfortunately indispensable.

> Excel single-handedly redeems Microsoft from being a pure drain on human existence Debatable. Excel can't even open CSV files properly. You need to run the import wizard. But loads of people don't do this. They see a file on their desktop and double click it. Why can't double clicking a CSV file just open the import wizard!? (Because they want people to share xlsx files as a data format.)

> Excel can't even open CSV files properly. You need to run the import wizard.

Ofc you do. In practice, a CSV file can decide to use `|` for comma, and `` instead of quotes.

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