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‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

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821–830 of 955 posts

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#821
post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The minimum rules we all must agree on have to be the basic human rights. And that means we can’t take all the civilians in Gaza hostage for Hamas. These are humans with hopes and dreams and friends and family, like you and like Israelis. That Israel in particular would so easily forget about this is horrible.

If the above mentioned surveys are to believed, then a not insignificant fraction of Israelis care less than you expect them to. Why is that? What are we misunderstanding about their perspective that causes the expectation to be off?

> Why is that? What are we misunderstanding about their perspective that causes the expectation to be off?

There's a perfect explanation for this in Ten Steps of Genocide, which is taught by many Holocaust museums.

Instead of recognizing Palestinian humanity, Israelites (not all, but enough to gain control of their government) have allowed themselves to discriminate, dehumanize, and persecute them.

Granted, not doing so in a situation as fraught with hostility & danger as Israel's would have taken tremendous levels of moral courage, but if there's one ethnic group that we expected to be aware of the slippery slope of genocide, it's the jews.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#822
post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try very hard to find credible primary and secondary sources of what's true on the ground. For Gaza, but also for Ukraine, Myanmar, Sudan, I am basically a nerd about conflict zones. From all of my research, I believe the IDF gets a bad rap but is no worse in Gaza than any Western army would be in the same situation. And indeed we can see that in dug in cities like the coalition forces vs ISIS in Mosul, civilian ca…

The United States occupation of Iraq was like a trip to an amusement park compared to Gaza. Please don't compare the IDF to the US military. At least the US military and its soldiers had RoE that they respected. Any breaking of those rules did not get ignored like they do in the IDF.

People who actually study this stuff say otherwise https://macdonaldlaurier.ca/im-a-war-scholar-there-is-no-gen...

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#823
post #87

In ideal world international peacekeeping forces would be deployed in Gaza. The peace and two state solution could only be enforced by imposing severe sanctions on Israel including possibility of aerial NATO strikes like in the former Yugoslavia.

In an ideal world none of the past 70 years of conflicts that led to this unrecoverable resentfulness would have happened. Unfortunately the only peaceful solution I can imagine is for Israel to let Gazans move to other Arab-world countries, let Israel annexate Gaza, and then imposing strict border controls and watches such that if Israel attempts any ethnic cleansing or illegal occupation they get severly sanctioned…

This would be about the 5th time your approach has been tried. Every time the result has been the same: Israel happily accepts your gift of land, expands, and conducts the same attacks against the next bit of land, violating all peace treaties. Why do you expect different results this time?

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least we aren’t giving the Russians bombs. The same can’t be said for Israel.

And Iran is giving bombs to Hamas and ruzzia. That is a tragedy what happened to Gaza. Even friendly Arab nations don't want them to come as refuges, I'm curious why.

Every country loathes refugees more than anything else. Doesn't matter if they happen to have the same religion and skin colour.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#825
post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States occupation of Iraq was like a trip to an amusement park compared to Gaza. Please don't compare the IDF to the US military. At least the US military and its soldiers had RoE that they respected. Any breaking of those rules did not get ignored like they do in the IDF.

People who actually study this stuff say otherwise https://macdonaldlaurier.ca/im-a-war-scholar-there-is-no-gen...

That's a right-wing propaganda outlet, not an institution of studying

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#826
post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone from the USA what I see from media coverage is genocide in Gaza. They would have to be truly ignorant and intentionally uninformed to say something like that or be in favor of genocide.

did you ever consider that media coverage is very selective and biased ? i remember half an year ago, during ceasefire when gaza was swamped in aid and food was rotting on the streets, laura coates at prime time said that "hundreds of gazans die from starvation daily". never happened. not even dozens. or when at abby phillips show yesterday, somebody tried to say that presenting images of children with genetic diseas…

[flagged]

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Given the numbers who voted for Hamas You mean of course, 20 years ago in 2006 when the last election was held in Gaza. In which they didn't even manage to break 50% I might add and with the Israeli government's blessing as Netanyahu was fond of boasting before Oct 7th --- a far lower number than the number of Israelis that still support the IDF's current military actions.

Do you think it likely Hamas support has declined since 2006? This suggest Hamas is still supported: https://www.npr.org/2024/07/26/g-s1-12949/khalil-shikaki-pal... > In which they didn't even manage to break 50% Less than 50% has dropped to around 40%. Still a very large chunk of the population, and still makes them by far the largest party. It is very common for parties to win elections without an outright majority…

>Do you think it likely Hamas support has declined since 2006?

Ah yes, why have any elections in any country for the next century when you can just have a couple of randos like you and I on the internet call those elections for the next 20 years for those hapless pesky fuckers based on our horseshit hunches and save everyone the trouble. What an elegant solution.

You'd think that autocratic Hamas government on the ground in Gaza would be as confident as you and have an election just for show if they thought they could break the 50% threshold they couldn't even manage to break in 2006. Who would give up free PR like that? Well I guess someone who couldn't guarentee that'd do better the next time, no?

64% of the current Gaza population wasn't even born at all or at most under the age of 5 in the last election (ages 0-24 now) . Of the remaining 36% of the current Gaza population at least half were under the age of 18 in 2006 (ie between the ages of 24-38). So less than 20% of the current population was eligible to vote in 2006. Of that 20%, only 44%% voted for Hamas, so like 10 percent of the current population of Gaza actually voted for Hamas in an election bygones ago. But hey, I guess you're saying it's obvious that any child who was subjected to two decades of occupation in an apartheid state would naturally vote for terrorists to free themselves from subjugation. So let's go with your gut cause fuck it, those people only live once.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#828
post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What state? The Ottoman Empire? The British Empire? In either case, foreign colonial states?

The sovereign state of Jordan, for example?

Are we talking about the West Bank now? Jordan relinquished any claim they may have had to the territory.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#829
post #816
post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France no longer has to live with the risk of of a conventional invasion by Germany because France has nuclear weapons now and Germany does not. If a terrorist group was using German territory as a base to launch attacks against France and the German government refused to stop them then I'm pretty sure that France would retaliate kinetically, even if that meant some collateral damage. The USA did this in 2001 when Al…

Israel also has nuclear weapons...

Yes, but those nuclear weapons are only a deterrent against other nation states. They aren't effective against Palestinian terrorist organizations, so they don't factor into the question of whether Israel should be willing to accept some significant ongoing risk of terrorist attacks.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#830
post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who actually study this stuff say otherwise https://macdonaldlaurier.ca/im-a-war-scholar-there-is-no-gen...

That's a right-wing propaganda outlet, not an institution of studying

Here is the same guy on NPR. https://www.npr.org/2025/07/29/nx-s1-5478643/war-scholar-dis...

He is also the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies at West Point, he is a real subject matter expert. I could also point you to plenty of similar sources.

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