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Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#821

Post by rayiner »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #283
kochb wrote: post #20

Don’t miss this bit. Currently enrolled students are going to need to find a new university. > In a news release, the Department of Homeland Security sent a stark message to Harvard’s international students: “This means Harvard can no longer enroll foreign students, and existing foreign students must transfer or lose their legal status.”

Which isn’t at all how PhD programs work. This is a supreme dick move to students are going to be forced to leave with an AbD for no other reason than Trumps ego. This is going to burn the children of the most powerful families across the world. Monarchies, dictators, owners of international conglomerates, etc all send their kids to Harvard. Destroying their children’s education out of a fit of malice is going to hau…

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#822

Post by acdha »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #816
acdha wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a short but sweeping claim without a citation in sight. That’s a recipe for a flame war but it probably won’t lead to a useful discussion since anyone who would respond is simply guessing at what you’re even talking about or whether you actually arrived at that position through research rather than simple partisan loyalty.

Ah. I worked there for years, still spend a lot of time there, and therefore know a lot of people who either are or were there. I should have said that.

It’d be especially useful to have more specifics about what you’re talking about. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of university administrators, politics, etc. but without even knowing what you’re talking about a lot of people, especially those who’ve been here for a while, are going to see that, decide it won’t have a positive outcome, and downvote.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#823

Post by firesteelrain »

Braxton1980 wrote: post #768
firesteelrain wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This goes both ways.

Why would you feel the need to state this? Obviously it would and it should. If Trump was a Democrat and the same situation was occurring then Democrat voters should be called out

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#824

Post by MisterSandman »

ty6853 wrote: post #14
cozzyd wrote: post #13

I wonder how many foreign heads of state have children at Harvard

It's likely foreign heads of state can obtain a different visa for their children, if they are even on student visas to begin with. They will be accommodated.

It’s so painful to hear HackerNews talk about visas. It’s pathetic how little people know about the system despite it running a large chunk of the tech industry.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#825

Post by nagaiaida »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #758
kristopolous wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have lower standards either. I mean they will now with a candidate pool reduction of 96%... The rest is kinda wild. I guess Ilya Sutskever should leave? Sergey Brin would have never started Google, Jony Ive would be in the UK, Jensen Huang and Nvidia would be hailing from Taipei, Elon Musk would be in Johannesburg, Linus Torvalds would still be in Finland, the Rasmussen brothers would have launched Google…

> You're beheading like 50% of the S&P my friend... And that's why we call it MAGA Maoism.

rather than say anything likely unconstructive myself in direct response to this, i would very much like to see you elaborate on your understanding of mao and what value and predictive power you find in this comparison.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#826

Post by djoldman »

throwaway219450 wrote: post #713
djoldman wrote: post #595

I was curious how this could legally be done. It's through this: https://studyinthestates.dhs.gov/schools/apply/getting-start... As far as I can tell, the headlines are not quite accurate. From my reading, a more accurate description would be that one cannot obtain a student visa to go to Harvard. So presumably, if someone could acquire legal residence in another way, they would be free to attend Harvard.

Yes ish, see my other comment. Foreign students normally enter via a non-immigrant visa (F1), or rather they are eligible to apply for that visa at an embassy, if a registered sponsor supports it. The visa permits a request for entry into the country for the purpose of study (at a port of entry). The most important document that you need day to day is a DS-2019 and you must remain "in F1 status" in the SEVIS system f…

Ah thanks, that makes sense.

It's a pretty weird system.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#827

Post by eviks »

neilv wrote: post #89

Can someone ELI5 the power networks involved here? I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this. Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence. And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For exampl…

> I thought they had influence throughout government.

That's "institutional talk", which is not relevant when you have a "mad king".

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#828

Post by londons_explore »

moralestapia wrote: post #793
anigbrowl wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

children of the most powerful families across the world I doubt that most of those people are reliant on student visas.

You cannot jump over immigration requirements "just because you're powerful", and the vast majority of them are not US citizens.

They could easily get an E2 entrepreneur visa, and the necessary cash is as little as $300k, most of which can be withdrawn later, so it's effectively a free citizenship as long as you have cash.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#829

Post by rayiner »

lobsterthief wrote: post #465
bamboozled wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monarchies, dictators, owners of international conglomerates, etc all send their kids to Harvard When you frame it like this... it doesn't sound like such a loss. But yeah, it's not the only way to frame it.

The percentage of Harvard international students who fall into this category is statistically insignificant. It’s not even worth framing.

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#830

Post by maest »

epolanski wrote: post #539
JCattheATM wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It boggles my mind that anyone with, apparently and allegedly, such a high tier education, would be against the actions Harvard has been taking this year. They are literally just fighting for basic academic freedoms.

People go to Harvard because they want a prestigious career, not because they have an insatiable palate for knowledge that somehow in 2025 they can't satisfy in any other way.

"Harvard's not a real school, therefore these actions are justified"

Even if you were right about Harvard not being a real school (which is a strange thing to claim), your conclusion still doesn't follow.

Separately, is there a name for this debating technique? I would like to call it "baiting the assertion".

You claim A => B where, in fact, A does not imply B. To distract attention from the faulty logic, however, you pick a highly divisive assertion A. That makes people argue about whether A is correct, instead on focusing on the faulty implication.

Here's an example: "Ukraine provoked Russia therefore we should send 0 aid to Ukraine"

(I have seen this argument both in the US and non-US discourses.)

When this argument is presented, people feel compelled to argue whether Ukraine did or did not provoke Russia. However, this hides the fact that _even if Ukraine did provoke Russia_, if might still make sense to provide aid: - due to humanitarian concerns - because you think the Russian response (even if provoked) is not commensurate - because you think the EU should present a united front - etc

However, saying things like "even if you are right " is a difficult thing to do when A is a very divisive (or glaringly incorrect) statement, which is why this is a common troll argument.

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