Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders • Hacker News Board

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#821

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 5:33 PM UTC

1970-01-01 wrote: post #765

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will be disabled by aftermarket kits The presence of which demonstrates wilful intent, turning another ticket into jail time and a criminal record.

And how long until having a 500 HP muscle car is a demonstration of willful intent to speed? It's a slippery argument.

> how long until having a 500 HP muscle car is a demonstration of willful intent to speed?

Acceleration != speed. Muscle cars accelerate fast. Disabling a speed governor ordered to be installed by a judge is as black and white as it gets.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#822

Post by wpm » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 5:33 PM UTC

adrr wrote: post #255

GuB-42 wrote: post #205

There are cars that can go way over 100 mph, and they almost all speed controlled by software. High performance cars are often speed limited by software to about 150 mph. How is this legal? Cars with speed limits that high belong to the track, not public roads, with a possible exception for emergency vehicles. There are some rare (emergency) situations where "superspeeding" might help, but I can think of many others…

How will my road legal car know when it’s on a track or a closed road? Some how putting a way to disable it defeats the purpose. If its GPS controlled, people will be spoofing GPS to remove the limit, just need a raspberry pie and some other components. You’ll have unintended consequences.

> people will be spoofing GPS to remove the limit, just need a raspberry pie and some other components.

How many, and how long before they straight up deserve to just go to jail for a little society time-out?

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#823

Post by wpm » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 5:38 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #584

_Algernon_ wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure in how incarceration can be considered a smaller sacrifice of rights than vehicle tracking.

Not sure how incarcerating people who are guilty of a crime is unconscionable but monitoring everyone all the time and eliminating the ability to move from Point A to Point B privately is totally fine and no problem whatsoever.

> eliminating the ability to move from Point A to Point B privately

Driving a car on public roads has not resembled this phrase for over a century in most of the world.

Walking is free. Pretty private too. Lace up.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#824

Post by ryao » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 5:38 PM UTC

asoneth wrote: post #782

ryao wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What interim? These are mutually exclusive approaches. Either you mimic what is known to work elsewhere, or you institute backward measures under the misguided claim that it helps. There is no embarking on both paths at once, since they involve doing largely opposite things.

The grand-parent suggested that the source of low German fatalities despite higher speeds is a driving culture that has respect for the "correct" way to do things. Can you explain how you think encouraging such a culture would be at odds with measures like cameras or speed limiters? I'm also unsure why you think it's "misguided" to expect those technologies to help reduce behaviors like illegal speeding. I don't see…

When I said that draconian measures were often opposite of what is needed to make roads safer, I was mainly referring to attempts to get people to drive slower on highways. Any attempt to force people to drive slower than the 85th percentile speed poses a danger to others on the road. If you do not believe me, try driving in the left lane at the 55mph speed limit in NYS in areas around NYC. You will undoubtably have many near collisions in just a 5 minute time frame from people cutting you off. Now, imagine a number of people being coerced to drive like that all the time while the rest do not. It is easy to see that there will be more collisions.

Doing draconian things that are ineffective has an opportunity cost that requires diverting time and effort from doing things that actually make a difference. Data on traffic cameras improving safety is mixed (mainly because of people flooring their brakes to avoid fines only to cause themselves to be rear ended). It also does not help that a number of places actually try to cause motorists to run red lights when traffic cameras are put into place by decreasing the amount of time used for yellow lights so that they can increase revenue. Interestingly, increasing the time spent with the light yellow decreases collisions at intersections and unlike traffic cameras, always has a positive improvement on collisions. Another option would be to eliminate intersections by adopting cloverleaf and/or diamond interchanges, which not only make traffic flows more efficient, but also improve safety (since you cannot run a red light, or have a collision caused by someone suddenly stopping upon seeing a yellow light). As for speed limiters, they are outright dangerous when they restrict people to speeds well below the 85th percentile.

That said, NYS has done a number of things to improve driver safety. They probably do not do as much as they would in less densely populated areas, but it is not hard to imagine other U.S. states adopting them. The real problem is that there are so many cars on the road that the average distances between them are very small. As long as the distance between vehicles remains non-zero, collisions are avoided. Efforts really should be focused on maximizing the distance between vehicles, rather than on minimizing the speed at which they travel. Raising the speed limits to the 85th percentile would help there. Car pooling lanes would also help. Modernizing public transport so that people do not need as many cars would also help.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#825

Post by graemep » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 5:42 PM UTC

vel0city wrote: post #800

graemep wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the consequences? About 1% of cars do not have insurance in the UK at any given time. > When we build our societies where you need to drive to function it's not surprising people will continue to drive when they shouldn't. Maybe we should build our societies so people don't have to drive just to live. In cities, definitely. In rural areas?

What are the consequences? For most drivers most of the time, they save a few hundred bucks a month. If caught, they'll issue a ticket with a fine that's about a month or two of insurance. Maybe their car will get impounded (unlikely). Maybe they'll face jail time with enough repeat offenses, but once again its unlikely they'll get pulled over in the first place. We'll just continue crushing the poor. The consequence…

You seem to have somehow interpreted what I said as defending driving without insurance? Did you read my other comments (particularly the ancestor to this)?

I meant consequences for those who are caught - i.e. is there a real deterrent?

Why do some of the US states mentioned have such high rates of lack of insurance.

> Most people don't live in these "rural areas".

but many do

> And even then, I'd argue those "rural areas" could do quite a bit to reduce car dependence

Depends how rural they are. In an edge of town/close to town location (such as I live in) a huge difference would be made by more frequent bus services. Righ

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#826

Post by wpm » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 5:43 PM UTC

FrancisMoodie wrote: post #359

illiac786 wrote: post #320

I don’t get that. Repeat offender => temporary removal of driving license. Done. You can make it progressive, remove it for a week, next time 3, etc. I guarantee this will calm people down.

It says in the article that people who lose their drivers license on account of speeding usually keep on driving anyway. I also feel like this is already the case in a lot of countries yet speeding still exists so I don't know if I agree that this is this simple solution no one is thinking of.

That feels like it could be fixed with forced impoundment or surrender of the offender's vehicles, and a certified mail notification to everyone they might know that might loan them a car notifiying them that if they do lend their car to the offender knowingly, they'll be held partly liable.

It's never going to be perfect, nothing will, but reducing the odds of bad behavior reduces the odds of bad outcomes.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#827

Post by wpm » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 5:50 PM UTC

JasserInicide wrote: post #755

beardicus wrote: post #495

lots of "freedom"-loving pushback on this law here. sorry y'all, we live in a society and your actions affect others. you choosing to endanger my life on the road does not make me more free. i think these speeders should just lose their license to drive forever, so maybe choose to view this law as a compassionate compromise.

This is 100% a political issue. Instead of introducing privacy-violating software, we could instead institute massive policing campaigns to curb speeding. But that would require actual effort by police, something they don't want to do.

Policing in a country filled to the brim with private firearms and a lot of people desperate to avoid serious consequences makes "massive policing campaigns" often lead to high-profile deaths.

Chicago tried to put cops in the CTA stations/trains and within weeks a man accused of "walking between CTA cars", techically a forbidden thing but commonplace and relatiely victimless, was shot in the back fleeing.

It's a political issue but really a design issue. Unfair speed limits do color our perception of speed limits in general, because they are often not set correctly for the design speed of the road, but are set correctly for the present danger certain speeds in that context exhibit. It is a warranted, justfied emotional reaction to the speed limit; we feel fine driving the design speed, yet are punished for making the road "unsafe". It's entirely reasonable to doubt it. The design speed should match, and even be slightly lower, than the intended speed limit of the road.

Also in Chicago, recently a 25mph speed limit failed to pass in the city council. I was all for it, but saddened the ordinance did nothing to demand local, county, and state DOTs to redesign roads. I live next to a very wide, four lane road with middle turn lane. The blanket speed limit in Chicago is 30mph. The road I live next too feels downright comical at 30mph. Everyone does 40 because it feels natural to do that. But at 30mph, I might die if I get hit crossing that road. At 40, it is all but guaranteed.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#828

Post by graemep » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 5:53 PM UTC

maccard wrote: post #682

graemep wrote: post #527

Repeat offenders should not be allowed to drive. In the UK we have 12 points, and lose them for various offences. You get a fine, usually with the alternative of a course the first time. Speed again within 12 months and you get a fine and a minimum of three points (more if you are well above the limit). Speed again within four years and you will lose more points, and AFAIK pretty much guaranteed to be more than the m…

I agree with everything you’ve said. But, the sort of person who gets 12 points isn’t exactly the sort of person who you would expect to actually stop driving once they’ve got there. They’ve already been in court for speeding (or worse) at least twice, possibly 4 times. Maybe more if they were offered a speed awareness course the first time. If the goal is to stop them speeding then these devices might actually do it…

Not in court - most are fixed penalties.

Yes, the devices might help, but I also think cars can be seized etc.

I believe the UK and the EU already require speed limiters be installed on all new cars. https://www.parkers.co.uk/car-advice/speed-limiters-what-the...

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#829

Post by jampekka » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 5:54 PM UTC

digbybk wrote: post #610

hermannj314 wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fully in support of making cars or mopeds or all travel safer. The US government and state governments are openly hostile to our residents and currently implementing massive mechanisms to track and control our population including our immigrant communities, women who need access to birth control, LGBTQ communities . The government wanting a system that requires GPS and speed information to allow law enforcement…

Cars are the leading cause of death of children in the US. More than cancer. Maybe you're right, I don't know, but it's not the "obvious goal".

Cars are also indirectly a huge cause of early death due to health problems caused by sedentary lifestyle.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#830

Post by bearcobra » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 6:01 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #99

bearcobra wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it common to refer to Virginians as being Yankees? Growing up in New England I would have assumed they’d avoid the term by being in the Confederacy

Per E.B. White: "To foreigners, a Yankee is an American. To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner. To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner. To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander. To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter. And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast."

Growing up in Vermont, this was clearly written before Red Sox fandom took over