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FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#821

Post by macinjosh »

jjulius wrote: post #724
macinjosh wrote: post #640

[flagged]

Sorry to hear that about your mom, that really sucks. Are you suggesting that all legal citizens maintain insurance, don't steal cars and don't flee crime scenes?

I am implying my Mom would still be herself if we were more serious about illegal immigration. Why is that hard to grok?

He had no license to be on that road, much less in the country. Both are privileges, not rights. The fact of the matter is if he had not been allowed to stay in this country when we was previously arrested, my mom would be OK today.

My family got unlucky, but society could have just not gambled on our lives in the first place? We have immigration laws for a reason, why should we ignore when they are violated?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#823

Post by macinjosh »

grafmax wrote: post #732
macinjosh wrote: post #640

[flagged]

One person’s crime doesn’t define a whole group. Most undocumented immigrants follow the law. Justice demands that we hold individuals accountable without using isolated cases to justify broad prejudice.

That doesn't change the fact that if this man was deported, according to the law, the first time he was arrested (he was previously arrested), then my Mom would be able to make us Thanksgiving dinner again, her favorite thing in the world, or it was.

The whole group is violating the law by overstaying visas or sneaking in the country, etc. Why is all of that OK to just let happen?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#824

Post by macinjosh »

chimeracoder wrote: post #690
macinjosh wrote: post #640

[flagged]

> Why are some people so obsessed with protecting people with no regard for our laws This is a wild statement for someone to write in defense of people who just broke the law while arresting a federal judge who was herself attempting to enforce the law.

She was a county judge and she helped him escape justice.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#825

Post by rufus_foreman »

Sharlin wrote: post #550
kabdib wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

note that ICE often attempts to treat administrative warrants as judicial warrants, and it's unclear from this reporting what they actually had [edit: it was an administrative warrant, not an _actual_ judicial warrant]

So just as valid as a piece of scratch paper with "WARANT" scrawled on it with a crayon.

Writing "WARANT" in crayon on a piece of scratch paper will not give you the authority to detain someone who is in the country illegally. It is my understanding that a valid ICE administrative warrant gives an ICE officer the authority to detain the person named on the warrant. And in cases like the one in question where ICE has ample time to get the warrant, it is my understanding that an ICE officer without the warrant would not have the authority to detain someone who is in the country illegally.

What the ICE warrant doesn't give is the authority to conduct a search of private property without permission. Which the agents in this case were not attempting to do.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#826

Post by JumpCrisscross »

lolinder wrote: post #721
Animats wrote: post #602

A key point here, which the judge brought up with the ICE agents, is that they only had an "administrative warrant".[1] An “ICE warrant” is not a real warrant. It is not reviewed by a judge or any neutral party to determine if it is based on probable cause. "An immigration officer from ICE or CBP may not enter any nonpublic areas—or areas that are not freely accessible to the public and hence carry a higher expectati…

Another key point is that generally speaking the charge of obstruction of justice requires two ingredients: 1) knowledge of a government proceeding 2) action with intent to interfere with that proceeding It doesn't especially matter in this case whether ICE was entitled to enter the courtroom because she's not being charged for refusing to allow them entry to the room. The allegation is that upon finding out about th…

> government has to prove intent here, which as some have noted is difficult, but if the facts as recounted in the news stories are all true it doesn't seem that it would be overwhelmingly difficult to prove that she intentionally took action (2) to thwart an arrest that she knew was imminent (1)

Dude used a different door so the FBI arrests a judge in a court room? At that point we should be charging ICE agents with kidnapping.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#827

Post by johnnyanmac »

goatlover wrote: post #582
exe34 wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you'd be declared an illegal immigrant and removed to hotel salvador pretty quickly at this point. The orangefuhrer has already said he's coming after the "homegrown" next.

At what point will Democratic state governors and legislatures have enough of autocratic takeover? States have their own National Guard.

we'll see if/when the lawsuits lauched against the administration is ignored by the administration. But no one wants a civil war. No one would win here except maybe China/Russia.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#828

Post by kristjansson »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #411
whoknowsidont wrote: post #12

Democratic states really need to start disallowing federal agents to operate within their borders and band together. Activate their respective national guards and make it happen. Yes, that means defying federal law. Yes that means exactly the consequences you want to draw from those actions. There is no other option at this point. The law is dead in the U.S.

Every public official in every state has sworn an oath to uphold the constitution. Willfully ignoring that oath whenever it suits them is not a faithful commission of their duties. While trampling on civil rights is a problem so is harboring known, convicted felons. If Wisteguens Charles had been deported in 2022, some of his future crimes wouldn't have happened. Instead we have people falling over themselves to have…

> sympathy for the worst elements of society

For people _alleged_ to be among the worst elements of society. If they're that bad, try them, get your slam-dunk conviction, and jail them here.

Deportation does not annihilate a person, or shift them to another astral plane, it moves them a few dozen or hundred or thousand miles away. The counterfactual for 'if so-and-so was deported' is unknowable. They might have just walked back in the following week.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#829

Post by kansface »

whoknowsidont wrote: post #490
kansface wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You advance civil war as the remedy for the hypothetical. I’m squarely with Lincoln on the matter.

This is a real news story with a real arrest on a real judge. There is no hypothetical here.

Yes, but the judge has not been shipped to El Salvador in the middle of the night. Resolving the matter in court _is due process_.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#830

Post by jjulius »

macinjosh wrote: post #821
jjulius wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear that about your mom, that really sucks. Are you suggesting that all legal citizens maintain insurance, don't steal cars and don't flee crime scenes?

I am implying my Mom would still be herself if we were more serious about illegal immigration. Why is that hard to grok? He had no license to be on that road, much less in the country. Both are privileges, not rights. The fact of the matter is if he had not been allowed to stay in this country when we was previously arrested, my mom would be OK today. My family got unlucky, but society could have just not gambled on…

>Why is that hard to grok?

Because of the way you worded your first paragraph, and the lack of information around timing of the previous issue of domestic violence. The first paragraph was passionately accusatory (rightly so, given your experience), and the second paragraph didn't clear things up.

I simply asked to clarify. Thank you for your response, and I wish you and your mom all the best.

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