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Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

bbc.com

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Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#821

Post by rdm_blackhole »

izacus wrote: post #568
rdm_blackhole wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is blatantly false. The EU has been pushing to pass the Chat Control law for the last 3 years which is even worse because at least in the UK the government would still need to get a warrant for the data they want whereas the EU wants to analyze your chat messages, emails and pictures in real time without cause or need to justify themselves.

The Chat Control law was voted down and it would not apply for UK if they'd still be in EU.

See my comment above, it doesn't matter that it was voted down. The point is that it was allowed to go to a vote in the first place.

How do you square being pro privacy but at the same time demanding to have unlimited access to all chat messages, emails, pictures and so on of all your citizens without the need for a warrant, without justification and without the citizens having any say on the matter?

The answer is that you can't. You either are for privacy or you are not.

As for not applying to the UK, that is a moot point because as soon as the EU gets it's wish then the UK will demand the same kind of access. Why would the UK government turn down such an opportunity?

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#822

Post by wkat4242 »

firecall wrote: post #717
bArray wrote: post #106

Too right, it was far more problematic than they ever made out. > The UK government's demand came through a "technical capability notice" under the Investigatory Powers Act (IPA), requiring Apple to create a backdoor that would allow British security officials to access encrypted user data globally. The order would have compromised Apple's Advanced Data Protection feature, which provides end-to-end encryption for iCl…

Also, I wondered if by complying with British law that they may somehow be breaking laws of another country? Hypothetically, if Apple just provide a back door to the data they have on US Senators for instance, then providing that information may be considered treason by the US. That's a totally made up example, and I have no idea, but it seems like it's possibly an issue. Which is all about the issues around data sov…

Treason is a very heavy charge and as far as I know it applies more to individuals. Can a company be prosecuted for treason? I guess it depends on the country and I don't know US law well (never even visited there)

But I'm sure local laws conflict heavily between countries yes. I'm often wondering how multinationals manage to navigate this maze. This is why we have such a big legal department I guess :) And the company I work for is a pretty honest one, I've never seen any skullduggery going on with eg privacy or media manipulation. In fact employees are urged to report such things and I have to do a course on responsible behaviour yearly. Probably a result of being purely B2B. But anyway I digress, just wanted to say that getting away with stuff does not seem to be the reason for us having a big legal dept.

But just look at the laws of e.g. the EU and Iran. Pretty diametrically opposed on many topics. There's no way to satisfy them both.

I think what helps to make this happen is that most countries don't try to push their laws outside of their jurisdiction. Which the UK is trying to do here.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#823

Post by blitzar »

IceHegel wrote: post #430

I'm sympathetic to the J.D. Vance angle, which is that European governments are increasingly scared of their own people. This is not doing a lot to change my mind.

I am unsympathetic to those that lecture others on not doing the very thing they are doing.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#824

Post by retinaros »

concessions afer concessions we gave away our freedom. the axis of good is mostly responsible for this but the opposition also wanted to remove anonymity and freedom from the web.

no one fought when the democrats called snowden or assange russian spys for revealing clinton corruption. they just blindly sided with their own corrupt political party and gave away freedom. just like previous govs censored trump, banned political opponents they created a precedent and opened the door to the end of freedom. its now beyond politics, we should fight for the last moments of freedom we have before its too late.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#825

Post by GoblinSlayer »

barsonme wrote: post #676
scripturial wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible to set up end to end encryption where two different keys unlock your data. Your key, and a government key. I assume google does this. 1. encrypt data with special key 2. encrypt special key with users key, and 3. encrypt special key with government key Anyone with the special key can read the data.the user key or the government key can be used to get special key. This two step process can be done for g…

E2EE means only your intended recipients can access the plaintext. Unless you intend to give the government access to your plaintext, what you described isn’t E2EE.

Google intends you and the government as recipients of data here.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#826

Post by retinaros »

IceHegel wrote: post #430

I'm sympathetic to the J.D. Vance angle, which is that European governments are increasingly scared of their own people. This is not doing a lot to change my mind.

lol. ask JD Vance what he thinks about Assange or Snowden.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#827

Post by retinaros »

lrdd wrote: post #15

As a citizen, I don’t understand what the UK government thinks they are getting here - other than the possibility of leaks of the nation’s most sensitive data. Also is it not possible to set up my Apple account outside of the UK while living here?

full control on everyone they deem as an opponent. in UK being dimmed and oponent is about posting the wrong meme or even standing in the wrong street at the wrong moment.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#828

Post by dsign »

EchoReflection wrote: post #530
ljm wrote: post #358

Fundamentally, I think the issue is more about technical literacy amongst the political establishment who consistently rely on the fallacy that having nothing to hide means you have nothing to fear. Especially in the UK which operates as a paternalistic state and enjoys authoritarian support across all parties. On the authoritarianism: these laws are always worded in such a way that they can be applied or targeted va…

"it's hardly likely that pedo rings or rape gangs will be top of the list of priorities".... is this not one of the most disturbing, disgusting, psychologically troubling and damning ideas ever to be put to words/brought to awareness? . Right up there "let's meticulously plan out this horrific, atrocious, dehumanizing act and meditate upon the consequences, and then choose the most brutal and villainous option". Dear…

> is this not one of the most disturbing, disgusting, psychologically troubling and damning ideas ever to be put to words/brought to awareness? .

Hmm? Hell has depths. Your yard might be a little too short to measure them? In that case, just think about this: rape is probably most common in prisons, where you will send innocents the moment this dragnet thing glitches.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#829

Post by NitpickLawyer »

jmb99 wrote: post #782
nashashmi wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, the right thing to do is allow for an alt-service.

How would an alt service help this situation? You’d just end up with backdoored services advertising E2EE, no? Apple’s move here is definitely the right one, introduce as much friction as possible to hopefully get the user pissed off at their government for writing such stupid laws.

> introduce as much friction as possible to hopefully get the user pissed off at their government for writing such stupid laws.

I'm actually surprised that they didn't add more direct text in that screen. "We are unable to provide this service... BECAUSE OF YOUR GOVERNMENT 1984 STYLE REQUESTS. Contact your MPs here and here and oh, here's their unlocked icloud data, might want to add some choice pictures to their stash..." would have been a tad more on the nose...

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