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Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

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Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#821

Post by insane_dreamer »

areoform wrote: post #758
stevenAthompson wrote: post #726

The United States is currently in the middle of a cyber cold-war with China. They hacked all of our major telco's and many of America's regulatory organizations including the treasury department. Specifically they used the telco hacks to gather geolocation data in order to pinpoint Americans and to spy on phone calls by abusing our legally mandated wiretap capabilities. Yet people are arguing that we should allow the…

The TikTok ban is security theater through and through. Chinese spy agencies don't have to make an app that millions of American teens use to harvest data on them. American companies have been doing the job for them. They — just like the FBI, NSA, American police departments and almost every TLA — can just buy the data from a broker, https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/01/nsa-finally-admi... https://www.eff.org/…

- harvesting data: sure the CCP could buy some data from data brokers; but that data is very limited compared to the data that TikTok itself has on its users

but data harvesting is not the real problem

the big problem is that you have a social network to which millions of your citizens are connected and used daily, which is under the control of a foreign adversary; it's a bit like if CBS was owned by the CCP

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#822

Post by ants_everywhere »

areoform wrote: post #758
stevenAthompson wrote: post #726

The United States is currently in the middle of a cyber cold-war with China. They hacked all of our major telco's and many of America's regulatory organizations including the treasury department. Specifically they used the telco hacks to gather geolocation data in order to pinpoint Americans and to spy on phone calls by abusing our legally mandated wiretap capabilities. Yet people are arguing that we should allow the…

The TikTok ban is security theater through and through. Chinese spy agencies don't have to make an app that millions of American teens use to harvest data on them. American companies have been doing the job for them. They — just like the FBI, NSA, American police departments and almost every TLA — can just buy the data from a broker, https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/01/nsa-finally-admi... https://www.eff.org/…

It's less about bare privacy and more about the fact that it's a closed loop system.

Meta collects your data and advertisers can indirectly use that data to serve you ads. In addition, government actors can use Meta's advertising tools to spread propaganda.

But TikTok is an all-in-one solution. The government have direct control over the algorithm in addition to having access to all of the data. They don't have to go through a third party intermediary like Meta and aren't only limited by a public advertising API.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#823

Post by imgabe »

joshfee wrote: post #584

I think the easiest answer to follow for "why is this not prevented by free speech protection" is "the fact that petitioners “cannot avoid or mitigate” the effects of the Act by altering their speech." (page 10 of this ruling, but is a reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Broadcasting_System,_In... )

Congress is explicitly empowered in the Constitution to regulate foreign trade. Free speech is not relevant.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#825

Post by HamsterDan »

stevenAthompson wrote: post #726

The United States is currently in the middle of a cyber cold-war with China. They hacked all of our major telco's and many of America's regulatory organizations including the treasury department. Specifically they used the telco hacks to gather geolocation data in order to pinpoint Americans and to spy on phone calls by abusing our legally mandated wiretap capabilities. Yet people are arguing that we should allow the…

There's at least three separate reasons that justify banning TikTok. If Trump bails them out, it's a complete betrayal of his base and the country at large.

1. Competitive balance. China does not allow US social media companies. If we allow theirs, our industry is essentially fighting with one hand tied behind its back.

2. China controls the algorithm for determining who sees what. This gives them tremendous ability to influence public opinion, and consequently public elections. That cannot be allowed to stand as long as China is hostile to the US.

3. China gets extremely detailed data about the interests and proclivities of millions of Americans, including military personnel and elected officials. This data is not otherwise publicly available and can be used for blackmail and other manipulation. Which is completely unacceptable when we have no mechanism to punish them from doing this short of global nuclear war.

Even ignoring the enormous threat to national sovereignty, TikTok has no redeeming qualities. It's an addiction machine that profits off people wasting away in front a screen. That alone is not a reason to ban it, but it sure does make the case stronger.

Banning TikTok is a clear-cut positive for the American people. Every American adult should be in support.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#826

Post by Aunche »

bjourne wrote: post #771
stevenAthompson wrote: post #726

The United States is currently in the middle of a cyber cold-war with China. They hacked all of our major telco's and many of America's regulatory organizations including the treasury department. Specifically they used the telco hacks to gather geolocation data in order to pinpoint Americans and to spy on phone calls by abusing our legally mandated wiretap capabilities. Yet people are arguing that we should allow the…

> They hacked all of our major telco's and many of America's regulatory organizations including the treasury department. Please cite your sources. After decades of watching American propaganda, we know all too well that it is trivial to make up shit from thin air and have a large segment of the population eat it up.

I'm not sure about "all our major telco's, but there is this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Aurora

> On January 12, 2010, Google revealed on its weblog that it had been the victim of a cyber attack. The company said the attack occurred in mid-December and originated from China. Google stated that more than 20 other companies had been attacked; other sources have since cited that more than 34 organizations were targeted.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#827

Post by carabiner »

stevenAthompson wrote: post #726

The United States is currently in the middle of a cyber cold-war with China. They hacked all of our major telco's and many of America's regulatory organizations including the treasury department. Specifically they used the telco hacks to gather geolocation data in order to pinpoint Americans and to spy on phone calls by abusing our legally mandated wiretap capabilities. Yet people are arguing that we should allow the…

Senator I'm Singaporean.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#828

Post by coliveira »

stevenAthompson wrote: post #726

The United States is currently in the middle of a cyber cold-war with China. They hacked all of our major telco's and many of America's regulatory organizations including the treasury department. Specifically they used the telco hacks to gather geolocation data in order to pinpoint Americans and to spy on phone calls by abusing our legally mandated wiretap capabilities. Yet people are arguing that we should allow the…

The interesting thing is that, using these tactics, the supreme court has made the legal case for every other country to ban US owned social networks! My opinion is that the US government has made another stupid move.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#829

Post by lossolo »

next_xibalba wrote: post #404
legitster wrote: post #119

TikTok is perhaps the most impressively addictive social media app ever created. The algorithm used in the US was apparently banned in China for being too addictive. There's a certain historic symmetry with how opium was traditionally used in China, then Britain introduced stronger, more disruptive versions, forcing a stronger social reaction. Geopolitics aside, I think everyone is kind of aware that social media is…

From a geopolitical perspective, this issue about 3 items: 1) Influence- TikTok gives the CCP significant direct influence over the views of Americans. 2) Data- TikTok collects massive amounts of data on 100s of millions of Americans. Opens many avenues for spying, extortion of influence, etc. 3) Reciprocity- Foreign tech companies are essentially banned from operating in China. Much like with other industries, China…

1. Is there any real evidence of the CCP using TikTok for anything?

3. Then what is Microsoft doing in China? What is Apple doing in China? Etc. No tech company is banned from China, the only companies that choose not to operate in China are those that do not agree to follow Chinese laws.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#830

Post by HamsterDan »

quantumsequoia wrote: post #733
stevenAthompson wrote: post #726

The United States is currently in the middle of a cyber cold-war with China. They hacked all of our major telco's and many of America's regulatory organizations including the treasury department. Specifically they used the telco hacks to gather geolocation data in order to pinpoint Americans and to spy on phone calls by abusing our legally mandated wiretap capabilities. Yet people are arguing that we should allow the…

> Tiktok is actively suppressing the stories. Is there any evidence of this? FWIW, I saw plenty of tiktoks talking about the China hack

It's completely irrelevant whether they have done it or not. The only thing that matters is the fact that they can do it.

We're not going let you have nukes just because you haven't nuked anybody yet.

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