Live data from Hacker News

Is the world becoming uninsurable?

charleshughsmith.substack.com

821–830 of 1001 posts

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#821
post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire west coast sits on top of a fault line. That’s why people don’t build with brick here. There’s plenty of brick buildings on the east coast (and on the west coast like in Oregon, but they have to be seismically retrofitted which is expensive).

It’s not just the West coast, brick buildings are simply not common all throughout the US, in places fault lines don’t exist.

Bricks have to be manufactured and transported. In denser countries, the transportation cost is lower and there is a factory near you. In the US, you’re damn well sure you can find timber, the US is loaded with timber.

Brick also isn’t some magical building material that solves all your problems without drawbacks. Wood isn’t some evil building material that creates a bunch of problems without benefits.

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#822
post #817

American, living in area prone to natural disasters: "Is the WHOLE WORLD becoming uninsurable?" The answer is obviously "no" since there are other parts of the world that don't live on a hurricane highway nor build houses made from firewood in an area prone to wildfires.

You also have to exclude areas that are now in flood planes (most cities), subject to freezing when the infrastructure can’t handle it (all of Texas), tornado prone (everywhere in the US(?)), and consider that the wildfire risk area for the US has expanded dramatically in the last few years. For example, there was a red flag warning that ran from Colorado to Texas at the beginning of this month.

Parts of many cities have always been in floodplains, but after just looking it up, it does not seem that "most cities" are meaningfully in floodplains. This also does not automatically make even the parts within a floodplain uninsurable, depending on the circumstances.

Likewise, the level of infrastructure, tornado, and wildfire risk for the vast majority of the country is not sufficient for them to be uninsurable. "Occasionally a tornado comes through and gets 1 out of 10k houses" is not even a huge pressure on insurance prices.

An

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#823
This is a great opportunity for developers to rebuild with greater density.

It's not clear how extraordinary the losses are - by how much home insurance losses actually outpace home-price inflation (not CPI).

For the moment let's set aside legitimate concerns of climate change or land-use policy inducing unanticipated risk.

Insurance is systemic in the sense of pervasive, but the question is whether the crisis is a controllable excursion from stability, or itself amplifies the problem.

The key factor in the 2008 crisis was how foreclosures reduced prices causing more foreclosures and higher borrowing costs - a vicious cycle.

With insurance, homes are already affected. What other specific markets? Does insurance company diversification spread the impact from real estate costs to other industries?

The destabilizing mechanism is insurer exit after over-exposure. Over-exposure comes not from extra assets, but from mis-pricing.

US Insurance is a private market facility, so pricing is competitive. If a competitor prices insurance below your risk-assessed value, your incentive is to meet their price and try to make it up in other markets or through better investments. This tendency would get worse in times of strong investment growth.

Thus the investment-dependent insurance industry loses when investments fail, and also tends to lose after investments have been winning. Insurance profitability in the last two decades may reflect a sweet spot of stock market performance more than improvements in risk-assessment.

Assuming over-exposure, then what? Both low prices and availability depend on diverse and competitive suppliers. After an insurer has suffered major losses in a market, particularly to the point of viability, they lose the confidence of both investors and customers -- and insurance depends entirely on that belief of reliability. So their best response is to simply leave that market, to maintain their reputation in other markets. Then as more insurers leave a market, prices go up, consuming all available price elasticity - which is very, very significant for homes as fixed assets that are key to other value streams like jobs, schools, etc.

Still, that seems limited to housing unless it takes down cross-subsidizing insurance companies.

But it does end housing in these markets. Individuals won't be able to buy homes because of the cost of mortgages and insurance. But if insurance is unavailable large companies could own apartments (or even subdivisions where they lease homes) and self-insure or enjoy more tailored insurance.

With entire neighborhoods destroyed by fire, developers could rebuild newer, denser housing. And insurers could stay in business by settling with policy holders using money combined with a stake in the new neighborhood corporation.

That's the ideal solution, but it won't happen at neighborhood scale because it would involve too many coordination costs. The state (California) would have to effectively take all the property to avoid hold-outs, and then arrange with various insurance companies and developers.

So the economic solution is for developers to buy up plots of burned-down neighborhoods. A single small developer could use California's SB-9 to build 4 units where there was one. And larger developers could buy a 4 adjacent plots and build a 30-unit apartment. Both could self-insure, or be well-served by insurance company that focuses on protectable, high-density housing.

Doing that at middling scale - lots of complex transactions - would make a good business, albeit not the typical YC. You'd combine a small tech firm with a boutique law firm, add a government relations team. You'd have to be up and running quickly to use the crisis to get the policies you need and start coordinating developers who are sure to be in demand.

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#824
post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is probably not a good comparison for home insurance because houses in Japan typically only have a 20 to 30 year lifespan. After that they are usually torn down and a new house is built.

Its a country built on seismically active volcanoes. If there's earthquake insurance in japan, it should be do-able. "In and around Japan, one-tenth of earthquakes in the world occur. " https://geoscienceletters.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/...

Home values in Japan are somewhat anomalous. There are some good policies that contribute to this, but also other factors that make me reluctant to generalize from Japan. It’s a country with declining natural population, where houses are assets that rapidly decline in value to the point where they’re nearly worthless not that long after you buy them.

Average home age in Japan is 30 years. I think, maybe once or twice, I’ve lived in a building less than 30 years old in the US. I’ve spent most of my life in buildings built pre-war. There aren’t so many pre-war buildings in Japan, but the US takes the blame for that one :-(

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#825

American, living in area prone to natural disasters: "Is the WHOLE WORLD becoming uninsurable?" The answer is obviously "no" since there are other parts of the world that don't live on a hurricane highway nor build houses made from firewood in an area prone to wildfires.

It’s possible that solve the hurricane problems with proper building regulations and lower the risk of huge wildfires with controlled burning. But the US as always prefers to pretend that there’s nothing to be done when other parts of the world has figured it out. We have cyclones here similar to the hurricanes in the US and usually it just blows over some trees maybe causes a power outage. The absolute worst I have…

Theory: Damages in the USA have gone up because mold mitigation was incorporated as a serious consideration only fairly recently. If you increase your definition of what damage is and the work required to fix it then 'damage occurring' will appear to suddenly go up.

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#826

Why don't insurance companies mandate significant fire abatement in new builds to be insurable? While it may not be possible to save every house, I wonder how many houses could have been saved with a thought behind "how can we minimize damage in a wildfire scenario"

This is happening already, it has happened to my neighbors. As resident of CA in a neighborhood which previously was not, but now probably is, 'fire prone' I fully expect to hear from my insurance company to provide evidence of defendable space and other modifications to minimize the likelihood of structure fire.

I've read that once more than about 5-10 house were on fire, there was really no hope of containment, due to the orientation of the streets relative to the wind, the proximity of houses, and the intensity of the wind. Thus the key is prevention -- not letting the wild land fire get to the first 5-10 houses.

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less about the question (that has been asked so much now its tiring) but more on how when people do ask it, they always ask in such a negative way. Its not why are so many homes built out of timber/wood but rather why are they built out of sticks?

“Stick-built” is the name for it. There are two main ways to build a house out of wood. You can go for stick-built construction or timber framing. Homes in the US were mostly timber framed until the early 1900s. Advancements in tools and manufacturing techniques has resulted in stick-built homes becoming dominant in the US since then. If you search for “stick-built” you’ll see pictures and encyclopedia articles descr…

> I’m not an expert but it seems to me that stick-built construction took over the country because of advancements in fasteners.

The availability of engineered wood products like plywood is a big part of it too. Being able to attach what's effectively a solid sheet of wood to a wall adds a ton of shearing strength, for example. (And that's without getting into fancy modern engineered wood products like parallel-strand lumber or glulam, which give you something even better than raw wood.)

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We'll develop mass production de-salinification plants and have enough water. And then you'll have the brine problem.

brine can be used for mineral extraction.

I'm guessing there's local ecology issues with this? Groundwater seepage, etc. Though that hasn't really stopped fracking so maybe it'll just be a non-issue at the policy level.

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#829

Like we see in California, when the government sets a price ceiling, insurance companies just leave. Same in Florida. If the free market truly was allowed run normally, the insurance rates in Pacific Palisades or on the Florida coast would be so high that no one could afford to live there. Is that a bad thing? If someone was living in a house near where they tested missiles, we'd call them crazy. At what point can we…

I've been trying to talk to people locally, a place with lots of homes built in the woodland-urban interface, about the risks of climate change and how insurance will have to change. Unfortunately these discussions almost never go well, because it seems that most people have at best a surface level understanding of what insurance is and how it works, and everyone is convinced that it's a full scam and insurance compa…

The issue is not that people believe that insurance companies are not pricing risk correctly. It's that because there is so little competition in the market, people are aware that insurance companies can charge higher premiums because they operate as an oligopoly.

Re: Is the world becoming uninsurable?

#830
I often hear people bring up the point that wood buildings are a risk for wildfires and brick/concrete would be safer. When I did some research on this topic years ago I concluded that brick/concrete is much less stable in an Earthquake, which is also a concern for LA. Is it possible to build earthquake resistant concrete structures?
Post reply on HN