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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#821

Post by bushbaba »

lostlogin wrote: post #528
KikoHeit wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is just such a toxic thread. What say did the civilian victims in Gaza have in the horrific acts by Hamas? There isn’t even a glimmer of moderation in anything I see in the argument here.

What say did the Yemenite civilians have in the Saudi lead aggression.

What say did the Syrian civilians have in the civil war.

What say did the Iraqi civilians have in the U.S. lead war.

What say did the Ukrainian and Russian civilians have in their war.

Your remark comes off as there should never be a war again period. The Palestinian people voted Hamas in AND were polled in majority support. Beyond Hamas the general Palestinian civilians also had those helping Hamas, supporting Hamas, and over 60-80% viewings Hamas’s actions as just.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#822

Post by apetrov »

cultofmetatron wrote: post #697
raxxor wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have linked to all kinds of videos that can only be described as malicious propaganda, and yes, that sadly includes the Amnesty ones. A few years ago that org drifted in a strange direction. But these videos try to manipulate you.

> You have linked to all kinds of videos that can only be described as malicious propaganda, and yes, that sadly includes the Amnesty ones. ok so let me get this straight. Amnesty international , the guardian and the wallstreet journal are spreading malicious propaganda? is that what you're trying to say and is the 20 thousand dead children from israel's brazen military campaign also malicious propaganda?

this is not a trustworthy organization with a long track record

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_International

https://nypost.com/2024/11/30/world-news/amnesty-internation...

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#823

Post by bushbaba »

computerthings wrote: post #708
KikoHeit wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

None of these orphaned children did any of these things. Don't pretend collective punishment is justified. There are consequences.

So you call all wars “collective punishment”?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#824

Post by dotancohen »

ignoramous wrote: post #611
reissbaker wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plurality of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi (aka, Jews who never left the Middle East), at 45% of the population [1]. This isn't about Europeans, or even "race": Mizrahi Jews and their Palestinian neighbors are racially indistinguishable. Ashkenazi Jews — that is, Jews who lived in Europe during the Diaspora — make up less than a third of Israeli Jews. [2] Although if you're dead-set on racial essentialism and blood-an…

> Although if you're dead-set on racial essentialism and blood-and-soil nationalism You're reading things OP didn't even write; and addressing a historical assertion with present-day facts. OP posits that European settlers coming in during the Ottoman era (establishing Hebrew-only areas & businesses, only to later demand a Jewish State, in opposition to the local majority [0]) is what kickstarted the current conflict…

How is this different than the Muslims currently pouring into Europe today? Whatever happened to "refugees welcome"?

It should be noted in context that in 1856 the Ottomans, after their war with Prussia, actively invited all peoples - not only Muslims - to come and settle the sparsely populated Holy Land specifically in order to collect more taxes. Jews and Arabs happily took up the offer. The last Jerusalem census to show a Muslim majority in that city was 1876, and the 50 years preceding it were neck and neck for Jews and Arabs majority.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#825

Post by chomskyole »

macspoofing wrote: post #803
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

This is a one-sided description of the conflict. I am empathetic to Israel, because they also do not have a lot options. Israel, as it it currently constituted (based on 1967 borders) is not a viable state if the West Bank is a hostile entity with a standing army, and funded to a similar extent as Hezbollah. The West Bank bulges into Israel and effectively cuts the country in half and places all strategic targets wit…

There is an international perspective on the borders that I think should be mentioned. I think it is also worth mentioning that most people who live now in West Bank and the broader Palestine area were not consulted in how power and might is distributed, whether they benefit or suffer from it.

Should they?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#826

Post by hmcq6 »

kgwgk wrote: post #793
hmcq6 wrote: post #781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All true, very true. Of course the other bunch will slaughter you for drawing a cartoon. You're confusing Al-Qaeda with Muslims.

> Asked if acts of violence against those who publish images of the Prophet Muhammad can "never be justified", 68% [of British Muslims] agreed that such violence was never justifiable. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31293196 You’re confusing Al-Qaeda with one third of Muslims living in a Western country.

> Asked if acts of violence against those who publish images of the Prophet Muhammad can "never be justified", 68% agreed that such violence was never justifiable.

> But 24% disagreed with the statement, while the rest replied "don't know" or refused to answer.

> Of those polled, 95% felt a loyalty to Britain, while 93% believed that Muslims in Britain should always obey British laws.

24%. 24% = 1/3. You seem like the kind of person who caused the McDonalds 1/3 pounder flop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdD206eSv0

But the better argument is that 24% of people saying "it could be justified" is that it actually could be justified.

Should I punch everyone who includes Nazi symbology in their art? No.

Should I punch a Nazi who repeatedly promotes his ideology through his art? Yes.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#827

Post by AtlasBarfed »

macspoofing wrote: post #803
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

This is a one-sided description of the conflict. I am empathetic to Israel, because they also do not have a lot options. Israel, as it it currently constituted (based on 1967 borders) is not a viable state if the West Bank is a hostile entity with a standing army, and funded to a similar extent as Hezbollah. The West Bank bulges into Israel and effectively cuts the country in half and places all strategic targets wit…

[flagged]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#828

Post by ido »

hmcq6 wrote: post #791
southernplaces7 wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And never mind that Israel still has a fundamentalist, authoritarian government that is actively at work undermining democratic structures and civil rights even inside the state As opposed to the neighboring states (and Hamas), which mostly have religiously tolerant, fully democratic governments that fully respect civil rights, and which of course have never openly stated that they want Israel to disappear from exis…

> undermining democratic structures and civil rights even inside the state Who killed Rabin? Israelis killed their own PM to prevent the Oslo Accords, the goal of the Oslo Accords was to provide a 2 state solution. Don't rewrite history.

Because all Israelis are the same? A right extremist assassin murdered Rabin. Even among the right he was almost universally condemned. Keep in mind Rabin was democratically elected on the promise of Peace.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#829

Post by kombine »

ars wrote: post #4

I credit Trump's pressure on Hamas - Hamas eventually softened a lot of their positions because they realized they had no choice. And I wish Biden had done a better job of supporting Israel, this war could have ended a lot sooner if Hamas had realized that the entire world was pressuring them to surrender. Instead the message got diluted with support for Palestinians, which Hamas interpreted as support for themselves…

> And I wish Biden had done a better job of supporting Israel

What a weird take. Without Biden's support of Israel this genocide would not have been possible. How do you mean it should have supported Israel more? Allow these psychopats to nuke Gaza?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#830

Post by TiredOfLife »

bbqfog wrote: post #288
Sabinus wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>IDF or Likud The IDF and Likud does not have a policy of attacking civilians to achieve political or war goals. They likely have some deranged and radicalized commanders who do this anyway, but it's not the organizational policy.

The IDF and Likud literally just killed orders of magnitude more civilians than Hamas in Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria and Yemen.

And literally zero members of Hamas. It's fascinating how all the population of Palestine consists exclusively of child journalists.
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