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Who killed the rave?

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Re: Who killed the rave?

#821

Post by saberience »

sneak wrote: post #635
9rx wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anecdotally, most people I know who love actual raves generally didn't go to clubs, for one. In a similar vein, most people I know who love watching sports do not play the sport they enjoy watching. However, like the parent, I suspect that the numbers watching a sport strongly correlates with the numbers playing the sport. There need not be overlap between the watchers and the players for the correlation to stand.…

Clubs close at 2am in most states of the US, by law. Raves usually start about then. They are not remotely the same thing.

Guess what, "rave" isn't a scientific term with a precise definition defined by the IEEE board of standards.

For every raver I know, it means going out dancing to electronic music and usually taking some drugs other than alcohol. It doesnt matter if it starts at 1pm and ends at 1am, or whether it starts at 12am and ends at 5am. The time doesnt matter, legality doesn't matter, and location doesn't matter.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#822

Post by jjk166 »

dagw wrote: post #103
jjk166 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd expect them to not write a piece about something with which they have no familiarity and that their target audience has no particular interest in.

Did you read the article? It's mostly about the business of running nightclubs and organising music events. Something that falls cleanly with the interest of the FT and its readers. The headline is just some SEO optimised clickbait to get traffic. Plus, as I mentioned elsewhere. A non-trivial number of today's FT readers are the same people that were at those original raves in the early 90s.

I did read the article because I was interested in the decline of raves. I unfortunately found an article on something different. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they wanted to draw traffic that would be interested in the article, and thus the mixup was an accident due to not understanding the difference between a nightclub and a rave, though that does call into severe question their knowledge on nightclubs. Alternatively it is possible they knew full well they were trying to get people who were not interested in nightclubs to click on their link, in which case they succeeded. Either way, my point stands.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#823

Post by coldtea »

resource_waste wrote: post #771
antihero wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well raves were free parties, and could be outside or in like an abandoned warehouse etc.

Amateur philosopher here: What is the debate going on here? Is it epistemology? Or linguistics? I imagine its some subset, if anyone can point me in the right direction, I'm interested.

Neither. It's definitional and/or historical.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#824

Post by coldtea »

wizardforhire wrote: post #753
coldtea wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you are missing something. Clubs have always been the „mothers“ of raves This is rewriting history. Raves was a british thing, and it was in the open, not in clubs. Chicago warehouse parties preceded raves and are important for electronic dance music history, but are not raves.

Actually to be pedantic raves go way further back. The first mention of rave in modern writing goes back to 60s counter culture, think oil projections and proto-pysch rock… it self a continuation of the happenings from the beat era. The term was repurposed in the mid eigties when dance music got pushed underground after disco demolition night. Disco never died in the uk or europe even though the roots arguably of mod…

>But techno?… thats all Detroit.

We're not talking about Techno per se though, but the so-called "rave parties" of the late 80s/early 90s associated with the namesake culture. A lot more than techno was involved, including acid house and later UK developments like jungle.

(And to be pedantic in the same way, we can find it way before Detroit, e.g. in Dusseldorf and Moroder's Italy and NYC)

Re: Who killed the rave?

#825

Post by bcrl »

colinwilyb wrote: post #804
ghaff wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The utterly lazy and unsatisfactory answer is that generations change. You mostly don't have bowling leagues or halls for groups like the Knights of Columbus any longer either. Now you can point to various societal changes that affect all those things but it's probably rarely one single answer.

In Toronto regulations were put in place required coordinating with Police, Fire, Ambulance, and submitting applications to use ANY private space for an intended "rave party". The spontaneity of gathering your friends to dance on the beach, use a private warehouse after hours, or host a house party that went past 2AM, was now risking police showing up and handing out fines. Regulation is the fastest way to kill anyth…

There were still underground events held in parks and other unofficial spaces after the regulations came in; I attended a number of small events by Moonshadow and others. Black Light Activists kept going with a regular dose of psytrance, and the monthly Darkrave event at the Big Bop continued until 2010.

Long gone are the exceptional raves like the ones held at the Ontario Science Centre which had staff manning the displays from 10pm until we were kicked out via the loading docks at 6am on Sunday morning... There's nothing quite like being 1 of ~6000 people on astroturf at a hanger in the Downsview airport watching the sun coming up at 4-5am on a warm summer night to a great morning trance set!

Re: Who killed the rave?

#826

Post by bcrl »

phin313 wrote: post #725
ryan_lane wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using crackhouse laws to target rave promoters killed raves in the US: https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94397&page=1 The RAVE act that followed formalized the gray area use of those earlier crackhouse laws. All of the rest of what you're saying killed raves is a result of this crackdown.

Ding ding. This and a lot of the sensation news pieces that came out a few years before, across the nation, that attracted more people for the wrong reasons that prompted things like challenging the local authorities and resulted in the RAVEact

The opioid epedemic likely contributed as well. Opioids are not exactly conducive to dancing all night.

The MDMA supply in Toronto was turned off overnight when the guy that processed barrels of chemicals at one of the chemistry labs at the University of Waterloo got caught in the spring of 2000.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#827

Post by lelandfe »

randomopining wrote: post #614
lelandfe wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That all predates COVID... circa 2017 you could catch me in some Ridgewood DIY with no atmospherics most weekends. My favorite nights are the ones where the only light is the exit sign and it's me and 15 other people dancing all night in an uncrowded dance floor until the sun comes up. Different strokes!

I'm not sure if stuff changed or maybe i'm just older. A lot of those parties seemed so mysterious and exciting a couple years back for me. Now it seems like the same old stuff month in and month out. Most DJs kind of have their shtick, and there's also this kind of standard left field rave sound that a lot have seemed to adopt. Kind of like the Resolute roster. it's also very hard for me to rationalize staying up un…

The less schtick the better! Take me out to a Club Night Club show at Sugar Hill Supper Club, or a Soul Summit daytime party, or some footwork DJ playing on a folding table in the back of a restaurant, or Randomer firing off banging techno at Nowadays until the wee hours.

Miss me with the DJs wearing masks, the choreographed light shows, the bottle service, the $200 admission. Look at the schtick-lessness of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=608rs5kB9ns

Re: Who killed the rave?

#828

Post by hmcq6 »

neom wrote: post #76
celticninja wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We go for the vibe not the facilities

I agree, I was surprised to read "real raves don't happen in legal venues" - first time I've heard that line of thinking. Been raving for 20 years and here is what a rave means to me: very dancy music, electronic of some type (doesn't need to be pure edm), no judgements, kindness, love, good energy. I'd argue this is unsurprising given where the idea of a rave came from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Tests to me…

> no judgements

"No judgements" is not something I would attribute to legal venues. I mean there are SOOOOOOOO many clubs with dress codes, and that's just scratching the surface.

It is my understanding that rave culture evolved out of the 90's illegal party scene which grew from the 80's acid house music scene. But even if you take it from the Acid Tests that would mean the parties were only legal for a year and have been illegal for nearly 60 years.

To some a rave is just any party, to me it refers to the event being a grassroots operation. For the people, by the people and which is usually done on the cheap because artists aren't usually rolling in dough.

To each their own though. I'm not gonna police your use of the word (unless you publish it apparently).

Re: Who killed the rave?

#829

Post by hmcq6 »

edm0nd wrote: post #179
deadbabe wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Used to do at least a line of coke before raves but with the way fent is laced into everything these days, no more

Get some test kits or test strips. You can get them for free and/or low cost, https://endoverdose.net

Test kits are hard for powders. The only proper way to perform a test is to put your whole stash in water, drop a drop of the spiked water on the test and then evaporate out all the water if your test comes back clean.

Re: Who killed the rave?

#830

Post by PhunkyPhil »

puddnutz wrote: post #215
PhunkyPhil wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This rings in Minneapolis. The midwest definitely has a solid, consistent scene for house/techno/electronic with DJs bouncing between Minneapolis, Madison, Milwaukee, Chicago for sets. The demographic is definitely millennial, with maybe ~25% being Gen Z. It's also definitely not... popular. The biggest nights have a _way_ smaller turnout than college bars or city clubs. I'm not sure how strong the crowd actually was…

Created an HN account just to ask... what are the entry ways to know what sets are going on in Minneapolis? The person you replied to mentioned Drop Bass Network and Chicago Redline, both of which have easily follow-able accounts. Anything like that in this area?

https://www.mnvibe.com/shows

Like the other person said, house proud is probably my favorite. If you see a tall thin guy likely wearing a sweater and hat, say hey to me!

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